|
|
Post by Leah & Stella on Mar 5, 2019 16:32:17 GMT -7
Hi all. I’m frustrated and concerned about how toileting is going to be anything but awful. Stella is sensing when she has to use bathroom. She will whine and get restless. But as soon as we pick her up to go she voids in our arms. We are trying to scoop her up in a pad but at the very least her hair gets wet and stinky and today she went in her kennel before I got home and she was a mess. She needs bathing daily if this continues. I’m trying to use wipes when I can but ultimately she stinks. This is heartbreaking. If anyone has any advice? I have successfully expressed urine once but I try every y 4-6 hours when home.
Also we started her on Trazadone. 25 mg once a day. We will give it at night because it really seems to calm her down. Waiting for a call from vet tonight to get other meds. She said they’d be here today. Our
UPS arrives as late as 9-10 sometimes.
|
|
Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
|
Post by Marjorie on Mar 5, 2019 17:06:15 GMT -7
That's good that she can still sense when she has to go, Leah, but it doesn't sound as though she can hold it until she gets to a place where she can urinate on her own. Expressing does take practice. Keep trying. It would be best if you were to get a hands-on-your-hands demonstration on how to express. It would make it easier to learn. The bladder when full will fill the entire abdominal cavity. As it empties and gets smaller, it can slip away and you'll need to find it. Usually it will move back towards the pelvic area. Expressing is a matter of physics. That means the pressure applied to the bladder has to be greater than the strength of the urinary sphincter. Sometimes you have to hold that pressure many seconds longer than you think before the sphincter is overcome. You can layer pee pads on the top of her bedding. Reach in and express her right on the pee pad and then ease the top pee pad from underneath her to dispose of. You can change a wire crate to open from the top which would make that easier. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies/cratetopconvert.pdfBaths are very dangerous for a dog going through conservative care. A wet dog is a slippery dog. Way too much of a chance of too much movement. Only wipe her while she's lying in the crate to keep her clean. The best thing to use to wash Stella is decaf green tea. Green tea neutralizes the acidity of the urine so it helps to avoid urine scald and leaves a nice fresh scent. Brew up a pot of decaf green tea, let it cool down and dampen a sponge or cloth. Gently wipe Stella's belly and legs. The remaining tea can be kept in the refrigerator and warmed up for later use. Here's our page on expressing again for your review. Please keep us updated on how that's going. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm |
|
|
|
Post by Leah & Stella on Mar 5, 2019 18:03:41 GMT -7
Also wanted to mention she wagged her tail a bit tonight. What does this signal if anything? Finally my vet just texted me. The gabapentin Came on the UPS truck just now. The other two meds did not. She called the distributor and they said that they were running behind because of weather conditions in this part of the country. Does it pay for me to run over and get the gabapentin tonight? It’s about a 20 mile trip one way. I’m happy to do it but if one more day won’t hurt I would rather make one trip. Again she has just bought a business in town for her practice so she is currently working from her home.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,534
|
Post by PaulaM on Mar 5, 2019 18:13:35 GMT -7
If she can specifically give a happy tail wag because you either did some happy talk to her or she saw you or a yummy treat, then that signafies she still has deep pain sensation (DPS). DPS is the last neuro function to go as the spinal cord incurs damage from the bad disc. DPS is difficult for a DVM to correctly identify, so we say only take the word of a specialist. But a happy tail wag as I specifically described, can be correctly identified!!
You know her best about pain. Is she in pain, then you would want to get gabapentin for nerve pain started. The only hurt is would cause to not pick it up is if Stella is in pain, she would have to continue suffering with pain til you got it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Leah & Stella on Mar 5, 2019 19:06:17 GMT -7
Thankfully she hasn’t appeared to be in much pain since the beginning of this on Saturday. My vet is also getting educated on conservative therapy and she is familiar w the concept. Ive been watching some videos on YouTube. One vet specializing in IVDD uses a stimulating tool along the spine from day 1 of diagnoses. And I have to say he moves the dog and back (paralyzed) end a lot. Picks him up by the tail. Swings hips back and forth? He has raving reviews. Any thoughts on why his non surgical option seems so different? Not questioning anything here. But information overload can be confusing and overwhelming!
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,534
|
Post by PaulaM on Mar 5, 2019 20:11:07 GMT -7
Simply put NOT ALL VETS KNOW conservative treatment. This is the reason owners MUST be self educated on IVDD! Knowledge is the power to say no thanks to maybe well intentioned but harmful advice or treatments in order to protect their furry friend! No manipulations, no chiro, no VOM, no PT during the 8 weeks it takes the disc to heal. The single most important care is the 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out of the recovery suite for a very, very few footsteps at potty time for 8 weeks. The spinal cord can be damaged and damaged permanently if the early healing disc gets too much pressure from moving vertebrae. The safety of the headling disc and the spinal cord trumps anythings that interinterferesfears 1. Dr. Isaacs, neurology (ACVIM) wrote an article for Dodgerslist explaining why no chiro, no VOM: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htm2. 3. 4. 5. 6. No PT during conservative treatment as it is too much movement for the early healing disc. Once crate rest has been completed then it will be safe for the conservative treated dog to be a slow introduction back to activity. Muscles will bulk up again. click to enlarge picture:  |
|
|
|
Post by Leah & Stella on Mar 7, 2019 8:19:22 GMT -7
Hi all. I am looking back to try and find reason you discourage diaper use. I thought that was a no no. My vet is wondering why?
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,534
|
Post by PaulaM on Mar 7, 2019 8:22:14 GMT -7
Diapers are as a last resort. Learning to properly express the bladder is for health reasons. --- Leaking would mean the bladder is being overstreched in order for reflex to kick in and release some urine. Constant overstretching would ruin the tone of the bladder. Then when the brain can connect to the bladder it won't function properly --- Reflexes won't void all the urine. The part remaining quickly can move to a urinary tract infection. When that expressing proficiency level has been attained then the dog would stay dry expressing session to session— a healthy approach to caring for the bladder! Most dogs abhor having feces or urine near them, where they sleep, some in a diaper/belly band. They rip diapers off, push blankets to cover up body waste. Anxiety is not good for healing. Too much movement of trying to hide body waste. As a very last resort, if it is a must to use a diaper, then be aware just like babies urine scald (rash) can develop. OFten a no toxic zinc ointment would be used. Aquaphor Baby or Aquaphor regular Healing Ointment contain same ingredients: Petrolatum (41%) Inactive Ingredients: Mineral Oil, Ceresin, Lanolin Alcohol, Panthenol, Glycerin, Bisabolol aquaphorus.com/categories/ OR Bayer's A+D® Original Ointment Active ingredients: Lanolin 15.5%, Petrolatum 53.4%  How are you doing with expressing? Does she stay dry session to session yet? Do you have a stack of washcloths handy to the recovery suite to cover her butt with as you lift her up to take to expressing just in case she might leak on your clothing, etc.? How is the green tea for cleaning fur/skin working out? Marjorie's tip: boil and cool decaf green tea to dampen a washcloth. It is mild with acidifying, antibacterial properties to neutralize urine on skin and fur to avoid rashes from urine scald + leaves a clean earthy fragrance.  |
|
|
|
Post by Leah & Stella on Mar 7, 2019 9:52:35 GMT -7
Honestly expressing is not going that well. I try to express her during the night about 2 AM. She typically does not go. Sometimes she whines before that so I pick her up and again while I am carrying her out she goes or she has already gone in her crate. I always try to expressing again first thing in the morning, about 6:30 AM. And then I try to express every four hours once we are home from work, about 330 - 10. I have honestly only been successful in expressing twice. She is having bowel movements though on the pad. She has only had one accident that way and it was during the day inside of the kennel. And it was a mess! I have tried the green tea and just using a washcloth. And she is still very stinky. So here is my game plan for today. When I get home from work I will have my husband help me so that I can shave her back end as much as possible. She is a long-haired doxie and and so all of that hair is making of the smell and the mess that much worse. We will do this in the kitchen over the kitchen sink. I will then have her sit in water in the kitchen sink. Good soapy water so she gets good and clean and hopefully smell free. Once she is good and clean and shaved I feel like using of the washcloth with the green tea will work better. But I am going to get her some diapers. For some reason she is not able to hold it all day long when we are gone even though she did it perfectly fine before she got sick. The diaper during the night and during the day when we’re gone will at least prevent her from sitting in that for hours on end. I will be as careful and gentle with her as I can pating close attention keeping her as still as possible. Between my husband and I I think this will work OK. With the exception of this poddy issue I feel like everything else is going as it should. The medication has helped keep her calm and sleepy. Other really hard part though is her looking into my eyes scared and confused. She doesn’t understand why this is happening and why she has to be in a crate all day long. That is very heartbreaking!
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,534
|
Post by PaulaM on Mar 7, 2019 10:10:43 GMT -7
I agree with trimming her fur with scissors around butt/genital area.
I do not agree at all with givein a bath. Wet dogs just do want to shake the water off...way, way too much movement. A wet sudsy dog is a slippery dog....an accident of too much waiting to happen.
Trim her fur and use the green tea to daub on remanining short fur and skin. That is the safest way for the disc.
When just learning to express, there is a period where you are likley not voiding all the urine. Proficience comes when you are able to feel the bladder in all stages of empytying. The last where the bladder becomes so flat you can almost feel the fingers of the other hand as you press on the bladder.
|
|
|
|
Post by Leah & Stella on Mar 8, 2019 17:26:33 GMT -7
So I have to ask. My Stella does not seem to be in any pain. I’m not sure if that’s good or bad. Is the paralysis the reason she’s not in pain? Which sounds like a bad thing. Or is it a good sign that she’s not in pain?
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
14 lbs
Carprofen 100 mgs tab as of 3/2: 25mgs 1x/day for 16 days
then 3/18 stop to test for pain/neuro
Diazepam 1cc IM 1-2x/day
famotidine 5mgs 2x/day
Trazadone 25 mg 1x/day]
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,534
|
Post by PaulaM on Mar 8, 2019 18:50:30 GMT -7
Leah, do update the med list as I don't think we have meds that came via UPS. It is the meds that are controlling pain. Once they are stopped on 3/18, your job at home is to assess for pain re-surfacing....meaning another course of carprofen would be Rx'd Good reading to help you ask questions and understand what your vet tells you. How the anti-inflammatory, carprofen, works during a disc episode: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htmSo let us know which your vet wants on the stop of carprofen 3/18— backing off of pain-masking pain meds or full stop on 3/18 so you have the ability to quickly and clearly assess for any hint of pain resurfacing. Rule of thumb: Pain= another course of anti-inflammatory + all pain meds, Pepcid AC back on board. No Pain= no need of any meds...just finish out the 8 weeks of crate rest for the disc to heal. |
|
