Chad & Winston & Angus
New Member
M-dox Angus 2/20 surgery................ M-dox Winston 3/14 surgery
Posts: 24
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Post by Chad & Winston & Angus on Feb 19, 2019 16:32:43 GMT -7
Hi! My name is Chad and Angus is a 6 year old Daschund that weighs 17pounds. We live in Dallas, Tx. I noticed on 2/14 that he was not acting like himself. He laid on his dog bed all day long. Took him to the vet that day and he said since there was no neuro deficits we would just watch him. I kept a close eye on him and he was not getting better but not getting worse either. I noticed today, 2/19 that he was worse. He can still walk some but did not have good reflexes on the left back leg.
My vet gave him 5ml of dexamethasone, IV today, 2/19. No pain meds. I don’t understand why he is hesitant to give us Tramadol.
Moderator's notes, please do not edit
17 lbs
no crate rest Rx'd on 2/14, dog worsened!!
Dex as of 2/18 : ?mgs ?x/day for ? days, then a test taper for pain/neuro issues
no stomach protection Pepcid AC Rx'd!!]
We don’t have a definite diagnosis but know it’s a disc issue. The vet is a general practice vet and will refer me to a neurologist,
I saw the vet today, 2/19 and put him on strict crate rest today.
He is still in pain and my vet is reluctant to give us any pain medications.
Currently, Angus is able to wobbly walk, can urinate and is pooping fine.
I unfortunately lost my first dachshund, Dillon, in 2012 due to Myelomalacia. I’m scared to death this is going to happen again.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,534
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 19, 2019 17:53:38 GMT -7
Chad, welcome to Dodgerslist. It is totally unthinkable for a vet to leave a dog in pain. Can you call ER and take him into get proper meds.
There is controversy about Tramadol. We see too many vets undermedicating with it so they think it doesn't work to relieve pain. Also some dogs just may be the ones where tramadol works for them.
Advocate that any of the pain meds be given 3x/day (every 8 hours). Usually 3 pain meds are prescribed each covering a different kind of pain.
—Methocarbamol works on the pain of muscle spasms.
— Tramadol is the general pain reliever.
— Gabapentin works on nerve pain.
There should be no sign of pain from one dose of meds to the next. Have no patience with pain as it does hinder healing. Look for your dog to be acting their normal, perky self when pain is fully under control round the clock.
Please be in position to give specific observations of pain to us, to your vet. That way there is no confusion if in pain.
SIGNS OF PAIN:
◻︎ shivering-trembling ◻︎ yelping when picked up or moved
◻︎ slow to move ◻︎ tight tense tummy
◻︎ arched back, ears pinned back ◻︎ head held high or nose to the ground.
◻︎ restless, can't find a comfortable position
◻︎ slow or reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions
◻︎ looks up with just eyes and does not move head and neck easily.
◻︎ not eating due to painful chewing or in too much overall pain
◻︎ holds front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight
◻︎ not their normal perky selves
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,534
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 19, 2019 17:55:29 GMT -7
When you go to ER, you will MOST DEFINITELY need to have a GI protector on board. Dex is a very powerful steroid well known in the medical community for the damage it can do to the GI tract!!!! All anti-inflammatories (steroids like Dex or NSAIDs) are involved with stimulating gastric acid secretion causing GI upset of not eating, vomit, red or black bloody diarrhea which can quickly lead to bleeding ulcers or life threatening holes in the stomach or intestine. Pepcid AC (famotidine) suppresses stomach acid production. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "Is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" (doesn’t need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If there are no medical issues, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach Knowledge about each med your dog takes is the added layer of protection. Good link to bookmark and read about Pepcid AC: www.marvistavet.com/pharmacy-center.pml The usual dose during a disc episode is Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours. Give the anti-inflammatory with a meal as added protection. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.html  |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,534
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 19, 2019 18:11:26 GMT -7
When you have the emergencies attended to please fill us in a bit more: ❖2 …A Please list the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and times per day given. …B How many mgs each Dex dose, ?x/day What is the sate of the Dex taper? Dex as of 2/18 : ?mgs ?x/day for ? days, then a test taper for pain/neuro issues …C PEPCID AC: ?mgs of Pepcid AC do you now have on board twice a day? ❖3 GI Tract problems presenting? —Eating and drinking OK? No nausea/not eating, no vomit? —Poops OK? Normal firmness & color -no dark black or bright red blood indicating bleeding ulcers? No diarrhea? ❖4 The hallmark component of conservative treatment is the very STRICT crate rest part (no PT, little movement). With little blood supply discs are much slower to form good scar tissue than it takes a blood rich broken bone to heal. Those weeks of a cast for a broken arm to heal is similar to the recovery suite being a kind of cast for the disc. 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks provides limited movement to allow good strong scar tissue to form. Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite, the mattress and more! —> www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmSTRICT means: ◼︎no laps ◼︎no couches ◼︎no baths ◼︎no sleeping with you ◼︎no chiro therapy "whys": __ www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htm ◼︎no meandering at potty times. ◼︎no PT for conservative dogs during 8 weeks to heal disc ◼︎laser or acupuncture for severe neuro damage is best at home via a mobile vet. Transports are always a risk to the disc of too much movement. Vet visits must be weighed risk vs. benefit for dogs with little to mild neuro diminishment. ❖5 POTTY TIME DOGs with BLADDER CONTROL: Carry to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very few limited footsteps. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog’s back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on!  ❖6 What are the current neuro problems?Currently can your dog wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you specifically do some happy talk? Knowledge is the power to fight the IVDD enemy and win!! You will be very amazed how quickly you can learn a lot about just one disease which a vet is not able to know in great detail for every disease known to cats and dog. With knowledge you'll be able to dialog with your vet in a way that allows understanding a prescribed treatment (meds, rest, etc), and when you do not understand, the ability to ask good, pertinent questions on behalf of your furry loved one. Or if needed to hire a vet more comfortable with their knowledge of IVDD.  The very best thing you can do for YOU, the caregiver, and for your dog is to read. Good place to get a speedy overview of conservative treatment: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm Follow the rest of the colored buttons in the next days to become the IVDD savvy pet parent your dog will need at Dodgerslist IVDD 101 page. Don't forget to bookmark it: www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmHelp all of your family recognize emergency signs and action to take. Print this flyer for your fridge: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/FridgeInfo81907.pdfKeep meds, dose & schedules straight with use of a med chart. D/L and print from here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/crateRRP/medchart.pdf |
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Chad & Winston & Angus
New Member
M-dox Angus 2/20 surgery................ M-dox Winston 3/14 surgery
Posts: 24
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Post by Chad & Winston & Angus on Feb 20, 2019 18:56:10 GMT -7
Well, we went to the surgeon today. Our appointment was at 11:15 and he was in surgery before 2. The vet said things went very well, he was able to get all the disc material out and thought the prognosis was excellent for a full recovery. I should get to bring him home by Monday.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,534
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 20, 2019 19:16:43 GMT -7
Chad, glad to hear the surgery went well! Was it not possible for any vet to bring on board an aggressive pain med approach to give relief? I bet your mind is flooded right now with concerns, questions. Now is the time to jot those things down. Here's a starter list of questions to which you can add some of your concerns to ask your surgeon: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/dischargequestions.htmThis page is good reading by Dr. Isaacs, ACVIM (neurology) as he explains many post-op questions for our IVDD community: meds, crate rest, PT and discharge day. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/surgery.htmLet us know what meds he is sent home on (name, mgs and frequency). Also how many weeks will Angus stay on crate rest which does include you doing all of the surgeon directed PT. |
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Chad & Winston & Angus
New Member
M-dox Angus 2/20 surgery................ M-dox Winston 3/14 surgery
Posts: 24
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Post by Chad & Winston & Angus on Feb 25, 2019 18:40:57 GMT -7
Today is the day.... Angus came home and we are five days post surgery. He’s regaining some mobility and is urinating. We were sent home with Gabapentin, 100 mg at 7 am, 2 pm, and 10 pm, Galliprant, 20 mg, 1 time per day, and Cefpodoxime 100 mg, give 1/2 tablet per day until gone. I’m going to start him on ✙Pepcid AC tonight. it was recommended that I treat his surgical site with an antiseptic until suture removal.
[Moderator's notes, please do not edit
17 lbs
no crate rest Rx'd on 2/14, dog worsened!!
Dex as of 2/18 :for conservative treatment stopped on 2/20
✙Galliprant as of 2/25 post-op: 20 mgs 1x/day
✙Cefpodoxime 50 mg 1x/day
✙Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x/day]
Sutures will be removed next Monday, March 4, 2019. We will discuss PT at his suture removal appointment. Also, 6-8 weeks of crate rest plus using the sling when we are out going to the bathroom.
What is the recommended dosing of Pepcid?
Chad
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Post by Pauliana on Feb 25, 2019 19:15:56 GMT -7
Hi Chad, so glad Angus is back home with you and doing so well! Pepcid AC dose is 5mg every 12 hours.. 30 minutes prior to the Galliprant..
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Chad & Winston & Angus
New Member
M-dox Angus 2/20 surgery................ M-dox Winston 3/14 surgery
Posts: 24
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Post by Chad & Winston & Angus on Feb 28, 2019 14:02:21 GMT -7
Okay, so last night Angus got all kinds of wound up. Trying to climb out of his crate, whining, crying, etc. Needless to say, it drove me nuts and isn't good for him either. What have others out there used for sedation or to calm a dog down? I literally got ZERO sleep last night.
Chad
Post by Chad & Angus on Feb 25, 2019 at 7:19pm
Thank you Pauliana.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Feb 28, 2019 14:21:23 GMT -7
I am sorry that you have had trouble sleeping. You need to care for yourself so you will be able to care for Angus. The two sedatives we often see prescribed are Trazadone and ACEpromozine. There are other more natural remedies you can try also. You can drape a blanket to his head height so he can't see if he jumps or stands on hind legs. Some of our members have found this helpful. Try using an oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser. This seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives such as Acepromazine, Trazodone, etc. with. Of course ALWAYS keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Other product brands may be available in your area or on-line… just shop by the active ingredient(s) on the label and the quantity for best price. Place a DAP pheromone diffuser at floor level where the recovery suite is. Some brands to consider: --Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser www.adaptil.com/us/Adaptil/Adaptil-DiffuserUse a diffuser with one oral calmer from below: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed us.virbac.com/product/behavior/anxitane-chewable-tablets2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php3)Bach's Rescue Remedy Pets is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation. Contains 5X herbs: Rock Rose (Cistus),Impatiens, Clematis, Star of Bethlehem (Ornitholagum umbellatum), Cherry Plum. www.bachrescueremedypet.com/about/what-is-rescue-pet/I used Rescue Remedy to help keep my Frankie calm in his crate after surgery. |
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Chad & Winston & Angus
New Member
M-dox Angus 2/20 surgery................ M-dox Winston 3/14 surgery
Posts: 24
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Post by Chad & Winston & Angus on Mar 5, 2019 10:20:43 GMT -7
Angus UPDATE: Today was suture removal day. Tomorrow will be 2 weeks post op. We are no longer taking any medications. Angus has regained 100% use of his hind legs and can walk on his own if I would let him. However, he is still at tad bit wobbly. He’s driving me freaking crazy, whining to get out of his crate. 😃 iIt is going to be a long 4-6 weeks. Chad |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,534
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 5, 2019 18:49:25 GMT -7
Wonderful report!!!! Let us know if any of the calmers help or if your vet ends up Rxing a sedative to help Angis be able to relax in his recovery suite.
What is the current PT your surgeon has directed with walking well. Walks to and from the potty place under speed control of harness and leash? The PT you are allowed to do can contribute to releasing her pent up energy somewhat.
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Chad & Winston & Angus
New Member
M-dox Angus 2/20 surgery................ M-dox Winston 3/14 surgery
Posts: 24
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Post by Chad & Winston & Angus on Mar 5, 2019 18:58:41 GMT -7
Angus Paula, PT is walking to potty. That’s all they’ve told me. I’ve tried giving him some Benadryl and that did not phase him in the least. I plan on calling the vet in the morning to ask about sedatives. I imagine it’s only going to get more difficult the better he feels. |
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Post by Roxie & Rowdy on Mar 6, 2019 19:23:17 GMT -7
Chad, the rehab for Rowdy is crate rest for 6 weeks. They encourage you to see their rehab specialist 2 weeks after surgery. We cannot do this as we live too far away and simply cannot spend the amount of time it would take to get there. That being said, we will do everything we are suppose to do for him. We are to do range of motion exercises 2-3 times a day for 3-5 minutes.
Standing exercises and walking with the harness 5-10 minutes 2-3 times per day. It may be different for your boy. Rowdy is my 3 rd doxie that has had surgery and he has unfortunately had it twice. Hope this helps.
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Chad & Winston & Angus
New Member
M-dox Angus 2/20 surgery................ M-dox Winston 3/14 surgery
Posts: 24
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Post by Chad & Winston & Angus on Mar 15, 2019 20:32:11 GMT -7
One of the vets called to check on Angus today. He told me to start letting him walk without the sling when we go potty. We did that tonight and he’s a tad bit wobbly but walking great considering what we just went through.
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 16, 2019 6:17:43 GMT -7
That's great news, Chad!  |
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Chad & Winston & Angus
New Member
M-dox Angus 2/20 surgery................ M-dox Winston 3/14 surgery
Posts: 24
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Post by Chad & Winston & Angus on Mar 20, 2019 14:36:21 GMT -7
Angus Angus is still doing really good. Today is 4 weeks since surgery. He's doing so well that I had to get ✙ Trazadone to settle his crazy butt down. Chad |
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Mar 20, 2019 15:13:25 GMT -7
So glad that Angus is doing well. Some dogs do need a sedative to keep them from doing too much too soon. Before you both know it he will be returning to most of his usual activities.
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