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Post by Mandy & Lucy on Feb 9, 2019 17:33:53 GMT -7
☆ 1 How much does your dog weigh? 38.6 lbs
☆ 2 ?Lucy is a mixed [which mixes?] breed. My name is Mandy
☆ 3 General practice DVM
☆ 4 started 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks: 2/7
☆ 5 Mostly no shivering and trembling. Has been sleeping okay. Does not want to get up and walk.
☆ 6 She can walk but does not want to. She's perfectly fine with wagging her tail. She's a little wobbly on her back legs but no knuckling.
☆ 7 So far she peed 2 times on the 7th and only once yesterday/this morning at 3:30. She can squat okay and seems to be able to fully release her urine.
☆ 8 Eating and drinking OK? Poops OK - normal color no dark or bright red blood?
Eating a little less than normal. Drinking okay. Has not pooped since the morning of the 7th prior to going to the vet. Poop was normal then.
Meds are 100mg Carprofen (cut in half given twice daily) and 100 mg Gabapentin (given twice daily).
[Moderator's note: please do not modify
38.6 lbs
Carprofen as of 2/7: 50 mgs 2x/day for 10 days, then 2/17 a STOP as a pain/neuro test
gabapentin 100 mgs 2x/day
no stomach protector PEPCID AC on board!!]
I don't know which mix of breeds. Added a profile picture of her.
Both meds are for 10 days.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 9, 2019 18:35:57 GMT -7
Mandy, welcome to Dodgerslist Forum! You are reporting pain (not wanting to walk move, still some shivering/trembling). Clearly the pain meds are not yet right. Mostly pain meds would not control pain dose to dose unless the vet has them Rx'd at the right dose and every 8 hrs. You'll need to report signs of pain and advocate for them being adjusted: -- Tramadol is used as a general overall pain reliever every 8 hrs -- Gabapentin is for nerve pain and due to its short half life, expect it to be Rx'd every 8 hrs -- Methocarbamol is for the specific pain of muscle contraction pain so often accompanying a disc episode. Also every 8 hrs. You are likely reporting GI tract damage of less eating! Carprofen as all anti-inflammatory drugs can damage the GI tract by increased stomach acids. STOMACH PROTECTION Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach. Ask if your dog has any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine)? (doesn’t need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a “no health issues” answer, then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine). The usual dose during a disc episode is Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours. Give the anti-inflammatory with a meal as added protection. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.html  Let us know you are on the same page about crate rest especially with your larger dog who may be too heavy to carry to and from the potty place....let us know if carrying is a problem for you. The centerpiece of "DISC disease" treatment is the healing of the disc via limited movement of the back via a recovery suite. 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks provides limited movement to allow good strong disc scar tissue to form. Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm PLUS further guidance on conservative treatment on our "All Things IVDD page: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmSTRICT means: - no laps - no couches - no baths - no sleeping with you - no chiro therapy - no walking to the potty place or meandering around there at potty times. If you are able: Carry your dog to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very, very few limited footsteps. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog's back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on!  Do you have any idea which mix of breeds Lucy is? |
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Post by Mandy & Lucy on Feb 9, 2019 18:47:36 GMT -7
Thank you. She is a heavier dog so I am having difficulty lifting her and carrying her without feeling like I am hurting her. Is walking from the recovery suite to go potty training okay? We have not been going out on our usual schedule because she does not want to get up and walk. She has stood up today to adjust on her bed.
She's been eating her food with her Carprofen. I didn't know about adding pepcid but I will check with the vet and do that!
I was getting extremely anxious yesterday because she would not go potty. I took her out first thing and she just sat down. I tried again later in the day to the same results. She woke me up last night and I got her up and out and she peed for a while so I know she had to go.
As far as carrying goes since she is a larger dog, what is the best way to carry her? I've tried to find videos but most are for small dogs.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 9, 2019 18:58:18 GMT -7
Mandy a dog is pain doesn't want to move and it really makes it difficult to care for them when what you do may cause them pain. The answer is getting the pain meds adjusted asap so Lucy can heal and be taken care of in comfort. So with a larger/heavier dog there is a need to think outside the box how you can eliminate footsteps to the very, very fewest possible. Movement of the back in walking can disrupt the scar tissue forming on the disc. Here are some ideas...let us know if they might work for you: --- pee pad adjacent to the crate where a step or two and she is on it. For inspiraiton and to let her know it is ok to pee in the house, scent the pee pad with some of her old urine or another dog's. A paper towel with urine can be stored in a zip lock bag til needed at potty time. --- Put crate on casters and roll to the sliding door. Then she steps a few footsteps out onto deck. Deck is fenced off with an expen to a small 6 foot diameter area. Use a sling if she's the slightest bit wobbly. Gotta keep the back from twisting, butt from falling down. Here is my little girl being carried out to the deck, snow as the potty place. Just using a sling as the ex-pen lets her see that there will be no darting off or sniff festing going on.  The idea in carrying any dog who has IVDD is to support both ends and keeping the back horizontal to the ground. I'm not sure how you would approach that task with a dog who is too heavy for you to safely carry. But if you can do it here are some ideas with a small dog. Protecting your own back by rising up with your legs not your back muscles. |
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Post by Mandy & Lucy on Feb 9, 2019 19:58:38 GMT -7
We pooped & everything looked good. Now she's eating the rest of her food (normal amount she would eat before the injury). I modified the lift in that video you sent and it worked really well. She didn't seem like it was uncomfortable and her back was straight. No yelping in pain.
She was ready to walk around in the back yard. We were not out there for long but I kept her walking to a minimum. Her first squat for pooping was a little low. She went as much as she could and then moved and the second time looked like a normal squat. Her walk was good, slightly wobbly but no crossing of the legs or anything. We are in for the night.
Thank you so much for having this forum. It's made me feel a lot better about this bad situation and hopefully Lucy will be feeling that way soon too.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 10, 2019 12:07:33 GMT -7
Mandy, glad to hear you have things figured out for a safe potty time.
Stay the course with 8 weeks of crate rest to get the disc to heal and I believe Lucy will have a very good outcome!
Let us know when you have Pepcid AC (famotidine) on board. We follow the proactve vets in not taking any changes of GI tract damage while on carprofen.
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Post by Mandy & Lucy on Feb 10, 2019 12:17:39 GMT -7
I picked up some famotidine when I had a chance to run to the store this morning. They are 20 mg though. Should I just give her half a pill or 3/4 of one? I don't know how easily they will cut because they are really small. With her weight and your recommendation of.44 mg per lb she should be getting about 16 mg.
Lucy seems to want to move around more this morning.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 10, 2019 12:42:45 GMT -7
You can round up the calculated 17mgs of Pepcid AC and give the full 20mgs tablet every 12 hrs.
Glad to hear Lucy is feeling better to want to move more. Of course she should not be getting too rambunctious or walking too much.
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Post by Mandy & Lucy on Feb 10, 2019 19:17:25 GMT -7
We've officially started taking ✚famotidine 30 minutes before our carprofen dose.
[Moderator's note: please do not modify
38.6 lbs
Carprofen as of 2/7: 50 mgs 2x/day for 10 days, then 2/17 a STOP as a pain/neuro test
gabapentin 100 mgs 2x/day
✚famotidine 20 mgs 2x/day]
Okay! Yeah, she isn't quite rambunctious yet but we are going to keep taking it
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Post by Mandy & Lucy on Feb 11, 2019 4:23:23 GMT -7
Any tips on getting back to a normal potty schedule? Just taking her out at regular intervals or do I just wait until she signals to avoid too much movement? Is part of this side effects from the meds?
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Mary & Mila
Helpful Member 
FEMALE— DACHSHUND
Posts: 218 
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Post by Mary & Mila on Feb 11, 2019 5:14:42 GMT -7
Hi Mandy,
Dogs can often get constipated because of meds, if it does happen that there's a lack of a bowel movement you could add 1 teaspoon of plain pureed canned pumpkin a day to her food, having lots of fresh water available usually helps, handy to know this in advance, just in case.
I would wait until Lucy signals she needs to go, dogs are usually vocal in letting us humans know, as they won't want a mess in their beds.
kind regards
Mary.
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Feb 11, 2019 5:49:03 GMT -7
Just wanted to clarify the dosage of the pumpkin since Lucy is larger than the doxie size dogs we usually see here. Give one teaspoon of pumpkin for every 10 pounds of body weight per day so Lucy could have 4 teaspoons of pumpkin per day. Note alternatives for constipation: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potato.
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Post by Mandy & Lucy on Feb 12, 2019 7:08:19 GMT -7
Thanks for the tips! Lucy seems to be doing okay now without the pumpkin. I don't think she's been drinking enough water so I've started adding some to her food to help keep her hydrated.
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Post by Mandy & Lucy on Feb 17, 2019 5:34:01 GMT -7
This morning was Lucy's last dose of meds. I called the emergency vet's office (where she went on the 7th when this happened) to see what to expect now and how to follow up if she seems like she's still in pain when this last dose wears off. The vet I spoke to said to follow up with Lucy's regular vet and possibly go in for a neuro consult just to make sure there are no deficiencies. From everything I've read I don't want to move her and risk traveling with here since she's been doing so well. Her regular vet does not open until tomorrow morning so I can't call them to consult today.
I know the flipping of the back feet to see if they put their paw back in place (or if they have trouble) was the neuro test that was done at the vet. Is it safe for me to do that myself at this point? She has not been wobbly in her walk since last Monday and her posturing when she potties is still looking good.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Feb 17, 2019 6:19:33 GMT -7
What you need to do now that all meds have stopped is to keep a close lookout for any sign of pain. If pain returns, then you'll need to immediately notify the vet so that Lucy can be returned to all meds for a bit longer. Pain means that there is still swelling pressing on the nerves of the spine and still a need for meds. If no pain returns, then the swelling is gone and there is no longer a need for meds.
Signs of pain to be on the lookout for:
☐shivering, trembling ☐yelping when picked up or moved ☐reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move ☐tight tense tummy ☐can’t find a comfortable position ☐Arched back ☐ Holding front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight ☐head held high or nose to the ground ☐Not their normal perky selves?
You should also watch for any sign of neuro deficits. There's no need to try doing a neuro test yourself. You can watch for any increase in wobbliness, knuckling when taking a few steps at potty time, back legs crossing. If you see any worsening of condition, you'll need to immediately notify the vet so meds can be started again.
You are correct to be concerned about transport to a vet's office at this time. Most vets who understand conservative care will agree to take phone updates. The emergency vet facility who originally saw Lucy should have been able to look up her records and advise you by phone. There should be no reason to follow up with Lucy's vet or go to a neuro at this point. Just keep an eye on her and let the ER vets know if you see any pain or loss of neuro function. It may just have been the vet who you spoke to today and hopefully if you need them again, you'll get a vet who will be able to advise over the phone rather than you risking a transport to another vet.
It sounds as though Lucy is doing very well indeed. Hopefully she'll continue to do well over the next few days now that meds have stopped and then all that will be needed to do is to finish out the 8 weeks of strict crate rest. Please keep us updated.
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Post by Mandy & Lucy on Feb 20, 2019 16:40:04 GMT -7
Just wanted to give a quick update. Lucy has been off the pain meds since Sunday morning and is doing great! No signs of pain or weakness in her legs. On to the next 6 weeks of crate rest! 😊
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 20, 2019 19:23:22 GMT -7
Mandy, such a good update on the stop of all meds. Continue to stick to the regimen of being strict about minimal footsteps to let that disc heal. Lucy is a lucky girl to have you caring for her!
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