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Post by Karleigh & Kallie on Feb 5, 2019 12:25:58 GMT -7
Kallie weighs 12lbs and just turned 6 years old. She was put on Predisone, taking 2.5 mg twice a day for 5 days, then once a day for 5 days and then once every other day until gone. She is on methocarbamol 125mg twice a day.
[Moderator's note: please do not modify 12 lbs Prednisone as of 2/5: 2.5mgs 2x/day for 5 days, BEFORE test-for-pain tapering methocarbamol 125mgs 2x/day no stomach protector Pepcid AC on board!]
Kallie is a shih tzu. My name is Karleigh.
I do not have an official diagnosis of IVDD. Kallie previously had a minor episode a year and a half ago, but showed no neurological symptoms so we moved forward with conservative treatment with crate rest for 6 weeks. At the time, the vet thought it could be a muscle problem, but due to the recurrence of the issue and now the accompanying ataxia, the vet suspects IVDD.
I went to see the vet today (2/5). Starting conservative treatment now. Set her up in her crate with everything she needs per recommendations on Dodgerslist.
Currently seems to be some pain. Her stomach is tight and she is shivering. She is usually a very active and excited dog, but is not moving much at all.
Eating and drinking is normal. Bathroom breaks are normal too. She is struggling to squat to poo though due to her left leg being a bit slow.
She can still walk. It's definitely wobbly. Her right leg is completely fine, it's her left one that is struggling. When we do a proprioception test, her reflexes are normal with her right leg, but she takes a little more time to correct her left leg (but she still does it eventually).
She has complete bladder control right now.
We're located in Chicago, IL. Additionally, if she fully recovers to the point where she's walking normally and there is no pain for a few weeks, I plan to fly down to Dallas Veterinary Surgical Center for the Laser Disc Ablation treatment to prevent this from happening again.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 5, 2019 12:56:17 GMT -7
Welcome, Karlleigh! Sorry to hear your Kallie is likely having a disc episode. She is undermedicated for pain! CAll the vet and report ALL signs of pain and advocate for a more typical aggressive approach. Pain meds can be adjusted over the phone, eliminating risky to the disc transports. SIGNS OF PAIN ◻︎ shivering-trembling ◻︎ yelping when picked up or moved ◻︎ slow to move ◻︎ tight tense tummy ◻︎ arched back, ears pinned back ◻︎ head held high or nose to the ground. ◻︎ restless, can't find a comfortable position ◻︎ slow or reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions ◻︎ not their normal perky interested in life selves + pain from neck disc: ◻︎ looks up with just eyes and does not move head and neck easily. ◻︎ not eating due to painful chewing or in too much overall pain ◻︎ holds front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight
Advocate for the addition of three pain meds to be on board. Each cover is different kind of pain typical to a disc episode. Pain meds be Rx'd 3x/day (every 8 hours) for round the clock coverage. — Methocarbamol ONLY works on the pain of muscle spasms. — add: Tramadol is the general pain reliever. — add: Gabapentin works on nerve pain. There should be no sign of pain from one dose of meds to the next. Have no patience with pain as it does hinder healing. Look for your dog to be acting their normal, perky self when pain is fully under control round the clock. Where did the vet think the disc was in the neck or the back?
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 5, 2019 13:04:53 GMT -7
STOMACH PROTECTION from stress and from prednisone Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach. Ask if your dog has any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine)? (doesn’t need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a “no health issues” answer, then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine). Mar Vista Vet reports: Pepcid AC has a very limited potential for side effects, the reason of release to over-the-counter status. The dose of famotidine may require reduction in patients with liver or kidney disease as these diseases tend to prolong drug activities. There have been some reports of exacerbating heart rhythm problems in patients who already have heart rhythm problems so it may be prudent to choose another means of stomach acid control in heart patients. marvistavet.com/famotidine.pmlSince both the stress of changes in routine and Prednisone will cause extra stomach acids, we follow the proactive vets who use Pepcid AC (famotidine) when any anti-inflammatory is in use. The usual dose during a disc episode is Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours. Give the anti-inflammatory with a meal as added protection. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.html thumb.ibb.co/mEGRuy/91x_Aj_s00z_L_SY355.jpg
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Post by Karleigh & Kallie on Feb 5, 2019 15:09:39 GMT -7
Thanks for the feedback. I reached back out to my vet with the suggestions and they agreed to adding Gabapentin to her regimen though they did not feel that Tramadol would benefit her. Hopefully this will provide some additional comfort for her. She warned of Kallie feeling lethargic with a combination of Gabapentin and Methocarbamol.
I will add in some Pepcid to protect her stomach as well.
The doctor believes if there is a disc issue that it is in her back.
For additional background: Kallie is usually very active and very much a jumper. After the first minor episode in summer of 2017, I had been working to stop her jumping as much as possible and bought steps for her to get on my bed. She used the steps most of the time but she would still jump on/off at times. I believe this most recent issue started after she landed a little awkwardly after jumping off my bed last Thursday (1/31) though she didn't really show signs of pain or ataxia until Saturday night (2/2) at which point I really cut down her activity and started carrying her to potty. I couldn't get her into my vet until today (2/5)
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Feb 5, 2019 15:19:27 GMT -7
I am glad that you were able to get gabapentin added to Kallie's meds. What dosage and frequency was prescribed?
The Pepcid will help prevent stomach damage from excess acid. Our IVDD dogs have enough to deal with and don't need stomach damage.
Let us know if the addition of gabapentin has relieved Kallie's pain.
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Post by Karleigh & Kallie on Feb 5, 2019 15:59:16 GMT -7
I'm not quite sure on the frequency and dosage of the gabapentin quite yet. After calling all my local pharmacies, none of them had tablets small enough for her since she's just under 12 lbs. My vet said tablets at 800mg would all require 8+ cuts for them to be suitable for her size. The gabapentin at my vets office are 100mg capsules so they can't be cut.
We had to send the script to a compounding pharmacy and they are going to create a liquid for her, which won't be available for me to pick up until tomorrow evening. I will confirm dosage and frequency once I pick up.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Feb 5, 2019 16:09:43 GMT -7
I am not sure how much gabapentin your vet want Kallie to take but it is possible to split a 100mg gabapentin capsule down to a smaller dose. Open capsule to dump powder into a creased sheet of paper. Use a razor blade to divide into 4 piles (25mgs each). Store the piles of powder in to one of those weekly pill keepers with a lid for each day.
When giving it to Kallie, make sure you do not transfer any dust from your fingers to the outside whatever you will use as the pill treat. I mash a piece of banana, form a ball, make an indentation. Spoon powder dose into well and close up. If necessary drape a piece of thin deli meat around the banana ball for further tastiness!
Check that that the pharmacy that is filling the Gabapentin prescription into a liquid does not put Xylitol in it. If it is a human pharmacy they might not be aware that Xylitol is TOXIC to dogs. Do not accept it if it has Xylitol in it. If it is a Veterinary pharmacy they will already know about the Xylitol.
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Post by Karleigh & Kallie on Feb 5, 2019 16:17:55 GMT -7
I should have clarified, the compounding pharmacy specializes in vet meds so they know about the Xylitol. My vet warned me about that as well so I'm sure she took extra care in ensuring the pharmacy she called it into was aware. I will definitely double check before using it though.
They're making a nice liquid for her and even adding chicken flavor for ease in administering it. She doesn't do liquids well so I hope the chicken flavor helps!
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Post by Julie & Perry on Feb 5, 2019 20:21:39 GMT -7
Karleigh, both my IVDD dogs are shih tzus and when having an episode do very well with: gabapentin for nerve pain 3x daily, tramadol for general pain 3x daily, methocarbomal for muscle spasms, and pepcid ac or the generic famotidine to protect against stomach ulcers. And of course an anti-inflammatory for the spinal cord swelling.
Tramadol and gabapentin actually work better together for pain control. IVDD is very painful. It's best to treat it aggressively.
Ramps are better than stairs for IVDD dogs. Less movement of the spine.
Perry and Nala, my shih tzus, and I are sending healing thoughts and prayers to you both.
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Post by Karleigh & Kallie on Feb 6, 2019 9:30:23 GMT -7
I'm not sure why my vet was against tramadol. She said there is conflicting research on the effectiveness of tramadol on dogs so she wouldn't prescribe it for us.
As far as ramp vs steps goes, if we get through this episode, Kallie will not be allowed on any furniture - period. Too much of a risk of her jumping on and off or falling off while she's up there.
As of today (2/6), she seems to be fairly comfortable. The walk is still wobbly, but she is not shivering as much, her stomach is not as tight, and her tail still wags as crazy as it usually does when she's healthy. Last night, I woke up in the middle of the night to her playing with one of her toys a bit aggressively, shaking it back and forth, and had to stop her and make her lay down. It's good to know she is already feeling good enough to want to play as she usually does, but I am not going to take any chances. I can see she is getting frustrated and restless, but as long as the drunken walk is around, she is going to be kept as still as I can keep her. It's going to be a long 8 weeks. Does anyone have advice on how to keep a very active dog still when they're feeling well enough to play?
Her Gabapentin should be ready this afternoon so I'm looking forward to being able to relieve any nerve pain she may be experiencing.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 6, 2019 11:59:21 GMT -7
Karleigh, right the key word is "conflicting" research studies. So why do we see many dogs on the Forum who ARE prescribed Tramadol, then have pain in control? What does it hurt to give tramadol a try...if Kallie happens to be an individual who is comforted, then that is good. IF not then the vet would need to try a different general analgesic. Pain from a disc episode comes from several sources. Each source of pain needs a different kind of pain. The pian meds typically are not effectively remaining high enough in the sytem unless Rx'd for every 8 hrs. --- general analgesic, Tramadol. Note what this veterinary pharmacologist says about under medicating with Tramadol. -- nerve pain - Gabapentin every 8 hrs. -- muscle spasm pain - methocarbamol every 8 hrs Please let us know that pain is totally in control within one hour upon giving Gabapentin. Right now you ARE REPORTING PAIN! Let us know you continue to see full pain control methocarbamol/gabapentin doses to right up to the next doses. Otherwise, have no patience with pain. Report to your vet any signs of pain and strongly advocate that all 3 sources of pain be covered. EMERGENCY CRATE training. There is a wealth of ideas for you to help Kallie be able to relax in her recovery suite here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htm
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Post by Karleigh & Kallie on Feb 6, 2019 16:40:15 GMT -7
Kallie is now on her ✚gabapentin (50mg every 8 hours) and is not showing signs of pain.
[Moderator's note: please do not modify 12 lbs Prednisone as of 2/5: 2.5mgs 2x/day for 5 days, the SUN 2/10 test-for-pain tapering methocarbamol 125mgs 2x/day ✚gabapentin 50mgs 3x/day no stomach protector Pepcid AC on board!]
Her walk is stilly wobbly, but it's only been a couple of days. She is very lethargic on the methocarbamol/gabapentin combo which I guess is ok since I want her staying still anyway, but it's a little sad to see my usually energetic pup so sleepy.
She isn't knuckling when she walks, just crossing legs. When I flip her paw over to test reflexes, her left leg is pretty slow at responding. Her deep pain is still there though.
Is it possible that she will regain strength and coordination in her legs again? It's heartbreaking seeing her stumble. I really would like to get the Laser Disc Ablation if she recovers but they won't consider her a candidate if she shows any neurological issues.
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Post by Pauliana on Feb 6, 2019 17:34:41 GMT -7
Hi Karleigh!
Both Methocarbamol and Gabapentin cause sleepiness. That is a good thing as sleep does help healing. This can be temporary as well.. Once Kallie's body gets more used to the drugs the sleepiness may ease.. Once they start to feel better they want to get more active and that is actually when its more difficult to keep them in rest mode.. 8 weeks seems like a long time but keep in mind you are working towards her healing and getting back to a new normal. She won't be like this forever.. You will have fun again with your Kallie.. Hang on to hope and healing.. I know this is true because my Tyler was diagnosed when he woke up paralyzed at 3 years old and recovered walking, he is now 9 and he has a great life, IVDD and all. Please read below about nerve healing.. Kallie is ahead in this because she has not lost the ability to walk:
REGAINING NEUROLOGICAL FUNCTION has no time limit for nerves to heal. Nerve repair is individual as each injury is different and each dog’s ability to heal is different. If deep pain perception (DPP) is present, even in paralyzed legs, there is a chance your dog may be able to walk again. For those dogs who have lost DPP, do know nerve regeneration can take place and that function may return. Once deep pain perception is regained, your dog has a chance at a walking recovery. Thousands of dogs on Dodgerslist have regained functions in as little as 2 weeks, others 11 months, and still others 3 years later. IVDD is a disease of patience to allow the body to heal on its own terms.
Once nerves have repaired then muscles will also have to be retrained to relearn proper placement of the paws. Some muscles will need to regain strength for walking. Consider learning to walk again as it would be for a stroke victim or a baby learning to walk. At first, the steps will be weak and a bit unstable. Relearning to walk takes coordination, building up strength, and lots of patience. There is no timetable anyone can give you when to expect nerve repair to happen. In fact, there is no time limit for nerves to heal...it can take weeks to more like a year or even longer. However, it is known that neurological function usually returns in the reverse order of the damage. The first big sign you want to look for is that wonderful tail wag!
1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you, getting a treat or due to your happy talk. 3. Bladder and bowel control proved by passing the "sniff and pee" test. Take your dog out to an old pee spot in the grass. Let him sniff and then observe for release of urine. 4. Leg movement, and then ability to move up into a stand, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly placed paws. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.
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Post by Karleigh & Kallie on Feb 6, 2019 19:47:09 GMT -7
Yes, I understand the need to be patient. It was very difficult to remain patient the first time this happened, but it took 2 weeks to see much progress back then (though she had no issues walking, only pain).
I suppose it's good to hear she only has step 5 & 6 to go with regaining neurological function. I am really hoping crate rest is enough for her to recover from the wobbly walk. Patience is going to be difficult.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Feb 6, 2019 20:31:09 GMT -7
Yes it's hard to be patient.
It's great that Kallie isn't in pain, can walk, and has bowel/bladder control.
What helped me was writing down any improvement I noticed. Even small things.
Maybe that Kallie is resting comfortably or that she's picking up a paw better.
Also, it's true, the drugs make them sleepy at first but it will pass as she gets used to them.
And right now it's really good for her to rest.
Every dog is different, but last year my Perry went down, back legs paralyzed.
Recently, he got up on couch, counter surfed, and grabbed a jar of peanut butter.
Kallie will get back to her old self.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 7, 2019 9:15:24 GMT -7
Karieigh, do you now have Pepcid AC on board, ? mgs and giving it every 12 hrs?? With there still being pain, to me it is not likely all swelling would be gone on the start of the test for pain taper this Sunday. A 5-day course of pred is a short one. If the taper is to go forward anyway on Sunday, discuss a plan B with your vet incase pain surfaces. Extra pills til the vet opens again on Monday , or an Rx you can fill at a 24hr pharmacy in your town? With the pred taper test for pain/neuro issues, naturally the pain masking meds would be either stopped or backed off so you can get a clear and prompt assessment. Which does your vet want on the taper of pred? Rule of thumb Pain= another course of pred + all pain meds back on board PLUS Pepcid AC. No Pain= finish tapering pred... finish out the 8 weeks of crate rest for the disc to heal.
The full details on how prednisone, an anti-inflammatory works with a disc episode. Good reading to be able to ask the right questions and discuss treatment: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm12 lbs Prednisone as of 2/5: 2.5mgs 2x/day for 5 days, the SUN 2/10 test-for-pain tapering methocarbamol 125mgs 2x/day gabapentin 50mgs 3x/day no stomach protector Pepcid AC on board!
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Post by Karleigh & Kallie on Feb 7, 2019 12:39:37 GMT -7
I will pick up Pepcid today. What is the recommended dosage for a 12lb dog?
She seems comfortable with the combination of methocarbamol and Gabapentin. Just really lethargic. I can’t tell if her wobbly walk is due to the disc or being drugged up. This morning, her stomach was not tense anymore, so I assume that means she’s not in pain.
Good news: this morning when testing her reflexes on her back legs, she was able to correct both feet in just a couple of seconds. This is an improvement from two days ago when it took about 10 seconds for her to notice her left paw was knuckled under. I think her reflexes are still a little slow, but it was definitely a step in the right direction.
Today was the first day I left her since the episode started... I couldn’t take another day off work. I’m so worried she might be moving around in her rest area. I just ordered a nanny cam for overnight delivery so I can monitor her from work moving forward.
I have plenty of prednisone from her previous episode, plus I was on prednisone for a bit a year ago so I have some of that too. I can continue prednisone for a while if needed. I think I will likely extend an additional 5 days before tapering just to be safe.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 7, 2019 13:38:01 GMT -7
Karleigh the test of flipping paw and seeing how long takes to right itself is a test not for reflex, but for nerve connection. So very wonderful if it is taking less time to right her paw... that is nerve repair!!!
Make sure it is your vet who is calling for another course of prednisone. Pred is one drug you do not want to fool around with. It it actually a hormone similar to the cortisol hormone the body produces to regulate life giving processes. While on pred the body is tricked into not producing its own cortisol. So your vet needs to prescribe the pred courses and to outline the proper tapering process for you. Let us know what your vet prescribes on the Prednisone.
So for a 12lbs dog Pepcid AC 5mgs every 12 hours.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Feb 7, 2019 14:00:47 GMT -7
That's awesome! Nerve healing is taking place.
Inch by inch 🎉🎉🎉
I'm also glad that Kallie is comfortable.
Sending healing thoughts and prayers to you both.
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Post by Karleigh & Kallie on Feb 8, 2019 14:53:47 GMT -7
Ok I've added ✚pepcid at that recommended dose!
[Moderator's note: please do not modify 12 lbs Prednisone as of 2/5: 2.5mgs 2x/day for 5 days, then SUN 2/10 test-for-pain tapering methocarbamol 125mgs 2x/day gabapentin 50mgs 3x/day ✚Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x/day]
I will follow up with my vet on extending the prednisone if I don't see [?what kind of] improvement before we're scheduled to start tapering just to make sure its ok.
No real noticeable improvements today aside from her energy level. She is clearly getting flustered with me keeping her down and resting. She's trying to walk more, even in her closed-off little area. If I tell her to lay down she just stares at me in defiance until I physically come to her to make her lay down. She is so stubborn, but I am happy she wants to move because I feel like it means she is probably not in pain. When she was in pain she did not want to move at all.
As far as her nerve function goes, walk is still wobbly and her proprioception test is still a little slow, but faster than the first day. I'm hoping her proprioception improves over the next few weeks. Even if there are no benchmarks today, things did not getting any worse so for that I'm thankful.
I've been having a hard time being away from her at work the past two days so I just purchased a camera to monitor her while I'm at work. I'm setting it up now! This will allow me to come home immediately if I see anything troubling or better prepare her rest area to keep her more stationary if I see she's still moving too much.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Feb 8, 2019 15:38:35 GMT -7
Good work in getting the Pepcid added to protect Kallie's stomach.
It is hard to leave our dogs when they are not well. Having a camera so you can see her is a good idea.
Pred is a very powerful medicine so it is definitely necessary to follow up with the vet. Pred and all anti-inflammatories work on swelling. The cannot heal nerve damage. More time on the pred will not improve Kallie's walking. Only time will heal the nerves. The pred taper is necessary so that the body starts up producing its own cortisol again. But it also can show if the spinal cord swelling is gone. If on the pred taper pain emerges or neuro functions worsen pred should be started up again at the full dose.
If Kallie's crate is the right size, only large enough to stand up, turn around and fully stretch the legs when lying down she won't really be able to walk. If she chooses to stand calmly, from time to time you don't have to stop her. Her wanting to move is definitely a sign that she is not pain.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 9, 2019 8:07:14 GMT -7
Karleigh, which of the 4 kinds of improvement are you refering to? - pain improvement of pain meds fully controllilng pain dose to dose - painful swelling improved fully and only proved by tapering prednisone + backing off of full stop of pain medds - disc healling improvement continues on til pretty strong scar tissue has form by 8 weeks. - nerve healing is something no meds do —just the body selfing healing nerves often with time of months.
With the the taper to scheduled on Sunday, today (SATURDAY) is the time to be contacting your vet before he closes at noon.
QUESTION With the pred taper test for pain/neuro issues, naturally the pain masking meds would be either stopped or backed off so you can get a clear and prompt assessment. Which does your vet want on the taper of pred that starts on Sunday?
If you would see pain or observe a worsening of neuro function, then another prednisone course would be prescribed by your vet.
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Post by Karleigh & Kallie on Feb 10, 2019 18:43:31 GMT -7
When I said improvement, I was referring to the neurological improvement, but I guess that isn’t tied with prednisone. We started the prednisone taper today so we will see how it goes, if she exhibits more pain or worsening neurological function I will ask for more from the vet.
She has been a lot more energized the past two days. I was only given 5 days worth of the methocarbamol so she’s done with that. I gave her Gabapentin this morning but it didn’t seem like she needed it when I gave it to her this morning. She doesn’t really seem to be in pain. She shakes a bit while out to potty but I’m going to attribute that to Chicago cold rather than pain.
Her walking seems to be getting better. It’s still wobbly, but I’m feeling like her improvement at this rate means she will be back or close to 100% by the end of the rest period. It’s hard to gauge where she’s at with her walk because her walk is much more wobbly while on gabapentin. I didn’t realize how much her walk improved from day one until I took her to potty before giving her another dose of gabapentin.
I have my camera to monitor her now and she DOES NOT do well in a crate when I am not home. She is exerting a lot of energy to try to get out. I’m concerned that it’s more damaging to crate her than to just let her out on the floor while I’m not home. I’ve tried calming supplements in the past to no avail. I may leave her out of her crate and gated to a small area with furniture blocked off as it may be a safer solution.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Feb 10, 2019 18:46:14 GMT -7
Have you tried a pack and play? It's a baby playpen.
Or an x pen?
Those options often work for dogs who don't crate well.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 10, 2019 19:45:30 GMT -7
Karleigh, ask the vet for a sedative then when you are at work. Best is to give it a try while you are at home to observe how it works. Have you tried this combo of calmers to help Kallie be able to relax inside the safest place for a healing disc--- the recovery suite. Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives (ACE or trazodone). Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Place a DAP pheromone diffusor at floor level where the recovery suite is: --DOG Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser 48ml www.adaptil.com/
Use diffusor with one oral calmer from below: Oral calmers: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php 3) Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation www.bachrescueremedypet.com
As long as a pain masking med is on board, the prednisone taper test will be delayed in finding out if all pain is gone. When whill gabapentin be backed off or fully stopped?
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Post by Karleigh & Kallie on Feb 11, 2019 6:24:17 GMT -7
My vet said to just use the gabapentin until it’s gone. It’s hard to know how much gabapentin is left because it was compounded to a liquid. But I’d say there is still 2-3 days worth.
As far as crating goes, I have every combination out there for calming, including the pheromones. I don’t know why, but it doesn’t phase her. We’ve tried anti anxiety and sedatives before and they left her really out of it. Not walking or eating so we took them out. After a couple years of trial and error, I stopped trying to crate.
If I block off her area with a baby gate, she should only have about. 4-5 sqft to move around. I’m going to try that and monitor with my camera to see how it does.
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PaulaM
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Posts: 19,540
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 11, 2019 7:57:24 GMT -7
Karliegh, and when you asked "why" to continue gabapentin when the test for pain has already begun and how that would impede your ability to assess for pain, what did he say? When you asked what would it hurt to back off or stop the gabapentin, what did he say?
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Post by Karleigh & Kallie on Feb 11, 2019 15:10:30 GMT -7
I didn’t ask my vet beyond when it was initially prescribed. They said every eight hours or as-needed until gone. I did not give her gabapentin this morning based on your feedback.
She seems to not be in any pain and it’s been 16+ hours without any pain meds.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Feb 11, 2019 17:55:58 GMT -7
Karleigh, anything we tell you with regard to the meds is only to give you information so you can discuss it with your vet. You should never stop or add meds without your vet's direction. Please let your vet know ASAP that you've stopped the Gabapentin and your reasons for stopping it. I agree that Gabapentin should be stopped during the taper of the prednisone so a true test for pain can be made but that has to be done through your vet.
It's very good that you haven't seen any sign of pain return with the tapering of the Prednisone and the stopping of Gabapentin. You'll need to continue to observe for any return of pain throughout the taper of the Prednisone and advise the vet ASAP if you do see pain return. Pain = swelling = more time on all meds.
Any type of recovery suite/area that you do should only be large enough for Kallie to stand up, turn around and lie down with her legs comfortably extended. Any additional room should be filled in with rolled up blankets/towels. Too much room may allow for too much movement and you want to limit her movement as much as possible.
Prayers for a pain-free taper off of the Prednisone.
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Post by Karleigh & Kallie on Feb 12, 2019 14:50:55 GMT -7
I saw the vet today and they’re pleased with her progress. Her walk is less wobbly day by day. Now, you can only see a wobble if she’s turning around. She used her back legs to scratch her ears for the first time since she went down too.
My vet said to use the gabapentin as needed so I can start or stop if it appears she is in pain.
My concern is that the vet is recommending I take her on short walks for 10-15 minutes a day. Kallie apparently lost some weight after being on strict rest (I had her immobilized 2/3, but started meds 2/5). It hasn’t been that long for the crate rest and she’s still in the 11.?? range, but apparently she lost more ounces than the vet is comfortable with. She’s eating fine so the vet is pegging the loss on muscle. The vet is concerned that if her muscles grow weaker, she will not recover as well as she should.
It’s only been 9 days on crate rest so there’s no way her muscles have lost that much, right? Granted, Kallie was VERY active prior to rest, going for walks/runs for miles at least every other day (if not more) so maybe the lack of activity is affecting her more. I’m worried to take her on the short walks, since that isn’t abiding by the “strict crate rest” rules. I don’t think she has much experience with IVDD dogs, and I pointed out that strict rest for 8 weeks was recommended, but she disagrees and thinks strict rest would do her recovery more harm than good. She wants me to slowly increase her activity.
What are your thoughts? Do I follow my vets suggestions? Or continue with strict rest? Would 10-15 minute walks be harmful if she’s on a harness?
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