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Post by Sandra & Wilson on Jul 24, 2018 12:02:52 GMT -7
[Original Subject Wilson the dachshund mix - cervical surgery] Hello new here!
Wilson is a 4.5 year old dachshund mix, 28 lbs, black and tan. On 07/11/18, he sustained an injury when a handler unintentionally pulled on his collar too hard. He was put on 4-6 week of strict create rest after showing some signs of pain (yelping occasionally).
On 07/17/2018, he woke up in significantly more pain, holding his head down and yelping when we get close to him. Rushed to ER at Angell Memorial in MA, had an MRI and found ruptured disc c2/c3. While he had deep pain sensation all throughout, the vet noticing him swaying his back legs during examination. They were able to perform surgery and he came home on 07/19/2018. He seems very comfortable with his meds which will taper off in a few days. [Moderator's note: please do not modify 28 lbs Carprofen as 7/17, 25mg, 2x/day, for 5-7 days Gabapentin, 100mg 3x/day will taper off meds in a few days. ]
He is eating and drinking normally; handling the crate rest with only minor annoyance; and is able to do body shakes and all of the normal dog things like scratching his ears and licking his undercarriage
We are trying to find the rhythm of this potty breaks - Hopefully in a week we can get better at it. It's been hard to try to get him to drink enough water. We keep a water dish in his crate and put yummy things in there to make him drink.
It's been a tough couple of weeks as he is a very active dog and it was very difficult to see him like that. We are also very worried about recurrence and wonder what are the changes of recurrence. We will be using the next four weeks to ramp up the house and make sure he isn't able to do any of the stunts that he so very enjoys.
Any advice for how to prevent recurrence and words of encouragement is welcome!
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jul 24, 2018 13:42:34 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist. Everyone here has a dog with IVDD so you are in the right place. Are you Sandra? I am Romy and my boy is Frankie. It will help us work together with you and avoid offering ideas that could cause harm or lead the discussion in the wrong direction delaying help for your dog — please share a bit more detail with us: A Please list the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and times per day given. … B If on a steroid….what was the start date & dose? Date of steroid taper? If on a NSAID, for how many days has it been prescribed for? … C PEPCID AC: All anti-inflammatories cause excess stomach acid. Pepcid AC will work on the excess acid and help avoid stomach issues that can sometimes be serious. Not wanting to drink could be a sign of stomach damage. Is he still reluctant to drink? Ask your vet if your dog has any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine)? (doesn't need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a "no health" issues answer,then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine). The dose of Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound, 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours for as long as your dog is on the anti-inflammatory. Some other ideas to encourage Wilson to drink try some tasty lo-cal, no-salt meat broth. Making broth yourself is better nutrition than the store bought which very likely contains onion. Dr. Yin, DVM "Onions and Dogs: A Lethal Combination" drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/onions_the_secret_killer/---Simply boil up a hamburger patty or a bone with meat on it in about a cup of water, cool & toss the fat disc, trash all cooked bones. --- Boil some chicken parts. cool, de-skin/de-bone and toss the fat disc at the top. --- Add 1-2 teaspoons of the meat on top of his kibble as added tastiness and nutrition without getting the kibble formula out of balance (such as calcium to phosphorus ratios, etc.) Post-op crate rest is to allow the surgical sites to heal. Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite, the mattress and more! —> www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmSTRICT for a post-op dog means: ◼︎no laps ◼︎no couches ◼︎no baths ◼︎no sleeping with you ◼︎no chiro therapy whys: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htm◼︎no dragging or meandering at potty times. Post-op dogs will follow surgeon's directives for PT during post-op rest as the offending disc material was surgically removed. 1. How many weeks did your surgeon direct for post-op rest? 2. What did your surgeon direct for at home PT? This site has some tips on what you can do at home to help Lilly's neck disc: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htm Can Wilson specifically sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? If he can squat and release urine, carry Wilson to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very few limited footsteps unless surgeon has directed some walking PT. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog’s back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/slingwalk.jpgIs the surgeon a general DVM or a specialist surgeon: ACVIM neurology or ACVS ortho? Acupuncture, laser and water therapy are excellent post-op therapies, if within your budget. Check with surgeon prior to starting. Some dogs have another episode and some never do. It is impossible to tell if Wilson will. Having ramps is a good way to minimize the chance of a recurrence. Knowledge is the power to fight the IVDD enemy and win!! The very best thing you can do for YOU, the caregiver, and for your dog is to get up to speed on IVDD as soon as possible. Begin absorbing the must-have overall sense of meds, care and how the treatment works. Your dog will be depending on your ability to learn: www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmUse the “search box” to easily locate topics over at our Main www.dodgerslist.com website: www.dodgerslist.com/index/searchBOX.jpg
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Post by Sandra & Wilson on Jul 24, 2018 17:04:18 GMT -7
Thank you for your encouragement! Wilson’s meds are as followed: Carprofen, 25mg, twice a day, 5-7 days, started on 07/17/18 Gabapentin, 100mg, three times a day, 7-10 days, started on 07-17:18 He is able to squat and potty normally . We carry him in and out to the yard to do his business and he is on a chest harness. We use a ex pen to give him some out of crate cuddle time before and after his meal and after his potty breaks. He sleeps in the crate and us on the couch next to him Post op instruction is 4 week strict crate rest and then evaluation by neuro team for further instructions.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 25, 2018 7:32:53 GMT -7
Sandra sound like the surgery did remove all the disc pieces from where they should not have been.
About not drinking enough. Remember total water intake would include moisture contained in his food as well as the amount he laps up. So if you feed a wet food that may be why you see less drinking from his bowl.
Another reason for less water, less eating could be carprofen and the extra acids and the damage it can do to the stomach (nausea-lip lickin, salivatig, not eating/drinking, vomit, loose stool eventually progressing further to bleeding ulcers. Pepcid AC is used to suppress those acids. Wilson is now off of carprofen--- do you see a change in his drinking or eating habits?
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Post by Julie & Perry on Jul 25, 2018 9:08:49 GMT -7
When my Perry wasn't drinking enough on crate rest I added a little beef broth to the water.
He loved it. Just no onion in the broth and get low salt.
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Post by Sandra & Wilson on Jul 25, 2018 15:31:36 GMT -7
He is eating like a champ and we now soak some soft treats in the water bowl and he is lapping it up . He seems to be healing nicely - no signs of pain or neurological deficits meaning he is moving around nicely and walking fine. How long does it take for the actual surgical site to fully recover? I know they have to remove part of the bone and everything - and we are committed to keeping to the 8 week mark of crate rest even though our vet only mandated 4 weeks. He is a bit of a bull in a china shop so we want to make sure he is really fully well before we ease him back into activities. Quick question for folks - I read through the board and everyone talks about keeping the steps to a minimum during potty breaks. How many steps is minimum? Wilson usually needs inspiration to get going, especially since he is being carried in and out to the yard. Our vet said as long as he is walking slowly, being out 10 mins is fine. If he is obviously distracted, I bring him right back inside, but wonder how many steps are too many?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 25, 2018 19:13:41 GMT -7
Sandra, it is the surgeon who knows what was invovled in the surgery and thus recommends number of weeks of post-op rest for your dog's case.
Upon graduation at the 4 week mark doesn't mean you'd just let Wilson out with free reign of the house and the yard to go from a couch potato to dashing madly after squirrels and running around the house. He'd be allowed out gradually for short periods of time as you see he is building up stamina and body strength again. I bet your surgeon will have a plan for you about increasing his around the neightborhood walk length with you. When his time is up, then back to crate til the next time. That might take several weeks before he is fully back to his normal family life.
As you approach graduation day we have some ideas to share with you in making your home back friendly, a sample time schedule, activities to encourage, etc.
At potty times, often when a dog can walk, then the surgeon might call for at home PT to be the slow controlled walk with harness and leash to and from the potty place or as your vet said he may walk slowly in the potty place.
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Post by Reuben & Luna on Jul 26, 2018 6:18:49 GMT -7
We soak Luna's food in water (equal parts kibble to water), her water bowl intake will decrease a little then but she's getting water from the food too.
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Post by Sandra & Wilson on Jul 30, 2018 12:47:09 GMT -7
Wilson is officially off of all pain meds as of today! Tomorrow will mark 2 week post op and he is doing okay in general. We have modified our schedules so he’s never really alone for more than 2-3 hours. He is doing okay with strict crate rest and we spent a couple of hours in ex pen laying together and cuddle. He is still being carried in and out to potty and has been much more lively. We have bunnies in our yard and they are distracting for sure. But overall, he is doing well. We hope the next four weeks will be just as smooth!
He is a little hoppy in his back legs - not sure whether that’s something we should report to our doc or it’s just his lack of exercise and getting bursts of energy when we do take him out. Because his back legs did sway before surgery, I wonder about any recovery needed in his walking.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 30, 2018 13:11:01 GMT -7
Don't hesitate to relay observations and things of concern to the vet. Your vet may be able to better intepret what you mean aobout hoppy back legs.
Good to hear off of all meds and pain free!!!
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Post by Julie & Perry on Jul 30, 2018 13:29:00 GMT -7
Definitely check with your vet, but I do remember my Nala doing a bunny hop sometimes when recovering after surgery.
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Post by Sandra & Wilson on Jul 31, 2018 12:53:40 GMT -7
Spoke with the vet - she isn't too concerned about the potentially wobbling!
He had a restless night last night - lots of whining all through the night. Given it is his first day off his pain meds, we were concerned it was because of pain. However, it is probably because he was off of his schedule yesterday with our family commitment. We will keep a close eye on him tonight!
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jul 31, 2018 13:08:27 GMT -7
I am glad that the vet was not concerned about his wobbling.
I think your observations are right and Wilson is not in pain. I am putting the signs of pain we look for again here for your easy reference; shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move, tight tense tummy, restless, can't find a comfortable position. Ears pinned back, arched back. Holding front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight, head held high or nose to the ground. Not their normal perky selves.
If you are seeing any of these signs in addition to whining it is likely to be pain. Especially as he has just stopped his pain meds. Otherwise more likely to be, as you said, a change in schedule.
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Post by Sandra & Wilson on Jul 31, 2018 14:39:46 GMT -7
Thank you! He seems comfortable and no whining today.
We do have a not so new challenge. Now that he is off of any kind of sedatives, it’s hard to stop him from being bored. He’s always been a chewer and is known to chew up blankets and swallow pieces. Before surgery, he will be in a bare crate when we are not home because we didn’t want him to end up eating anything that he can’t pass. But with the strict crate rest and the necessity of padding the crate, he is back to his favorite pastime which is chewing up the blanket that covers the foam bed. We have found pieces of it in his poop. Any suggestions on blanket alternative for a dog who does this? We suspect he might have pica but who knows!
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jul 31, 2018 14:59:13 GMT -7
So glad that Wilson is feeling more comfortable today.
There are some dog blanket that advertise as being chew proof. Not sure how true that is. You can take a look on Amazon.
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Post by Sandra & Wilson on Aug 1, 2018 15:40:42 GMT -7
Yeah I think we just have to remove the blanket when we are not home. Hopefully he won’t chew the bed!
Today he had something on his bum that he was trying to ger rid of. He ended up wanting to drag his bum on the ground and he Couldn’t do it. He is still rehabbing but I’m really hoping it’s just him still recovering and not a permanent neuro deficit issue. We will ask our neurologist of course!
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Post by Sandra & Wilson on Aug 10, 2018 14:56:26 GMT -7
Love to gather ideas for modifications around the house. We have ordered ramps for the steps to the yard so he can start walking himself out to the yard once his 4 weeks is up. We have also ordered a bunch of gates around the house to restrict areas for him. Question is what do we do with our bedroom being upstairs? I can’t imagine carrying him up and down everyday because 1) he is almost 30 lbs and 2) I’m really afraid that I’ll fall while carrying him. Anyone has seen modifications in situations like this? Our house is cape cod style so it’s about 20 steps up.
Thanks!!!
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Aug 10, 2018 15:11:41 GMT -7
I think 20 steps would be too much for a ramp. I have seen some dog lifts for stairs. But they might be expensive. The best thing I saw was on the handicappedpet's forum. Somebody had actually made a lift for his dog and has videos that show how he did it.
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Post by Merriem & Spike on Aug 10, 2018 15:27:20 GMT -7
I had stairs in my last house. I wouldn't chance hurting yourself or your dog. Put a gate at the bottom of the stairs. I personally think they are dangerous. Our dog Spike used to sleep with us, but now he sleeps in his house in the dining room and is perfectly happy. They adjust better than we do.
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Post by Sandra & Wilson on Aug 14, 2018 13:19:03 GMT -7
We can’t believe it’s been four weeks! Our neuro can’t see us for another week so for now, it’s business as usual with the crate rest. He does feel much better, and pester us more and more to be let out of the crate. Love to hear suggestions of reintegration plan for when we do eventually see our neurologist and have a plan!
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Aug 14, 2018 13:42:45 GMT -7
I am so glad that Wilson is feeling much better. When Wilson is released from crate rest he should be gradually reintroduced to activity. He will need to slowly build up muscle and stamina. Your surgeon may give you specific instructions but we have some information including a possible timeline for reintroducing activity here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htm
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Post by Sandra & Wilson on Aug 25, 2018 12:43:44 GMT -7
Thank you very much! We appreciate the support over the last four weeks! All clear from neurologist! One week of easing into activities, but our baby is feeling so much better! Yay
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Aug 25, 2018 13:18:35 GMT -7
Excellent news! I am very glad that Wilson is doing so well. Slow and steady is the way to go when he begins activity again.
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Post by Sandra & Wilson on Aug 25, 2018 15:10:19 GMT -7
We walked(five houses down) to the top of the streets and back and heis exhausted! Poor guy! He’s definitrly not as strong as before but we are confident that he will Be soon! Slow and steady is right!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 25, 2018 17:09:43 GMT -7
Five block is alot for the first time of getting back to an active life. Do look over the schedule and see how you take take things a bit slower. The idea is IF Wilson would be sore you want to be able to rule out muscle soreness cause you took, it slow. Now is a good time to be determining how you are going to ease back into more normal activity at graduation. The idea is to gradually give more freedom under controlled conditions. Not free reign of the house and yard immediately! LOL Take a look at our information and then come up with a plan to gradually increase activity over about a month's time following the end of crate rest. Also check out how to teach four paws on the floor! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmDont for get to think about making those home modifications so that you can reduce the stress on the spine in the future. No more stairs, ramps up to furniture, or blocking furniture all together. All those ideas and more are in this link: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htmWe invite you to hop on to our educational bandwagon team. Education about disc disease is our number one mission! We wish we did not have to hear of another dog that was put to sleep because of disc disease nor one denied the correct principles of crate rest to help them heal. We would like all of our members to pay forward for the help they have received with their dog by helping us educate!
We depend on you. Here are some ways to help... -- "Share" our FB posts www.facebook.com/Dodgerslist-- Hand carry our literature to your vets. When in conversation at the grocery store line or wherever you may meet breeds most prone to IVDD (Dachshunds, Beagles, Poodles, Spaniels, Shih Tzus, Pekingese, and Chihuahuas) give out our little cards. Ask Linda to send you a free packet: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/litorder.htm-- We have store where you might find something you absolutely need! Our earnings go to paying for our webpage and literature to hand out. www.dodgerslist.com/store.htm- Help another trying to make quick decisions about surgery… We have a directory where you can share surgical costs. Here is where to enter information in the directory: dodgerslist.boards.net/board/10/guidelines-postingState: Hospital: Address: Cost: Date of surgery: What was included in cost (MRI?, days stay, ER? PT? meds for home, sling, etc.) Comments: -- Don't forget to add a photo to the Gallery and 1-2 sentence caption. Give inspiration to others just starting a scary IVDD journey. Directions about uploading to the Gallery here: www.dodgerslist.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5
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Post by Sandra & Wilson on Aug 26, 2018 9:04:14 GMT -7
Thank you! We definitely plan to ease him back into activities. We live in condense New England neighborhood where houses are right next to each other’s. We timed it today and we are walking the length of five houses at this moment which takes about 4 mins lol! He looks at us like “why are we turning around already?!?” He doesn’t have any free reign of the house and he never gets free yard time anyway because we have holes in the fence so no worries there!
We just ordered a ramp for the couch! Hope to get everything all ready to ease into his time!
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Post by Sandra & Wilson on Oct 5, 2019 18:54:50 GMT -7
[Original thread: Ivdd graduate from a year ago looking for information] Our dog Wilson and cervical disc surgery a year ago and had recovered fully from it. The last two days, he has been licking his hind paw excessively which he has done in the past. He woke up this morning in pain and unwilling to put any weight on that paw. We feared the worst and took him into the emergency room. They know about the ivdd surgery before. The vet determined that because his paw was swollen and the elevated white blood cells, it was not at all disc related. Took X-ray, inconculsive of foreign object in the paw but still insist that it wasn’t related to back issue. Sent us home with the following meds: 100gm gabapentin twice a day 25 Mg carprofen 100mg of cefpodoxime [Moderator's note: please do not editWeight 28 lbsCarprofen as of 10/5: 25mg ??x/day for how many days? until stopping to test for pain/neuro Gabapentin 100mg 2x/day Cefpodozime 100mgNo stomach protection on board!]He is putting weight on it now and rest at home. My question is - how do we know it isn’t neuropathy that’s causing him to excessively lick? Is there anything that we should be looking for? The last episode was traumatic so we are just worry at this stage.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 6, 2019 5:34:26 GMT -7
You did exactly the right thing by taking him to the vet right away to determine what is causing the licking. However, it doesn't sound as though they gave you another definitive diagnosis. Gabapentin is the medication given for neuropathy. Has that helped with the licking? If not, pregabalin (Lyrica) is a stronger medication that can be given for neuropathy. Not wanting to bear weight on a leg could be a sign of nerve root signature pain. With nerve root signature pain, something is irritating the nerve root as it exits the spinal cord to travel down the leg. Severe leg pain is one of the main symptoms. I'm glad to hear that he's now able to put weight on the leg. Here's some info to read as a background for discussion with your vet. I would call the hospital and speak with them about root signature pain. Any vet at the hospital call pull Wilson's records from yesterday and speak to you. www.dodgerslist.com/neurocorner2/rootsignature.htmDr. Bagley. Lateral and Foraminal Disk Extrusion in Dogs [Root Signature Pain] www.scribd.com/doc/23748101/CANINE-Lateral-and-Foraminal-Disk-Extrusion-in-Dogs or tinyurl.com/76ypu4o Do you currently have Wilson on strict crate rest? Until you receive a diagnosis other than an IVDD episode, you should treat this as a new disc problem. Did the vet give you any idea what was causing the problem? Could the swollen paw be from the excessive licking? Elevated white blood cells could indicate inflammation which does not rule out IVDD. Crate rest with conservative treatment is much more strict than post-op crate rest. STRICT means: ◼︎no laps ◼︎no couches ◼︎no baths ◼︎no sleeping with you ◼︎no chiro therapy whys: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htm ◼︎no dragging or meandering at potty times. ◼︎no PT for conservative dogs during 8 weeks to heal disc ◼︎At home laser or acupuncture for severe neuro damage is best. Transports are always a risk to the disc of too much movement. Vet visits must be weighed risk vs. benefit for dogs with little to mild neuro diminishment. Carry to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very few limited footsteps. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog’s back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on! Do you see any other sign of pain? ☐shivering, trembling ☐yelping when picked up or moved ☐reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move ☐tight tense tummy ☐can’t find a comfortable position ☐Arched back ☐ Holding front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight ☐head held high or nose to the ground ☐Not their normal perky selves? Full pain relief is expected in 1 hour and stays that way dose to dose. If not in control your vet needs to know asap to adjust meds. PEPCID AC: Anytime a dog is taking an anti-inflammatory, stomach protection must be added. Ask if your dog has any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine)? (doesn’t need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a “no health” issues answer, then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine). canigivemydog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/can-i-give-my-dog-pepcid-ac-300x300.jpg  Doxie weight dogs: 5mg Pepcid AC (famotidine) every 12 hours. NOTE: Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound, 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours for as long as your dog is on the anti-inflammatory. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.htmlHow many times a day is the Carprofen being given? For how many days is it to be given?
Does Wilson still weigh 28 lbs?Is the vet a general DVM or a specialist surgeon: ACVIM neurology or ACVS ortho?Healing prayers for Wilson.
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Post by Sandra & Wilson on Oct 6, 2019 7:03:52 GMT -7
He is still 28lbs.
The vet made the determination because they found also bacteria’s and elevation of a specific kind of white cells. Also, he can walk and just not putting weight on it at first. He is now walking on it and bearing weight.
No shivering at the moment (last night a little bit). We have put in a request to the neurologist who performed his last surgery in hope that she can review his file (it’s in the same hospital).
We are putting him on crate rest until we hear back from the neuro.
Are there other signs we should be looking for?
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Post by Ann Brittain on Oct 6, 2019 10:55:14 GMT -7
Taking the precaution of putting Wilson on crate rest makes sense until you can get an opinion from the neuro. It certainly won't hurt him and could save him from further injury if he is having an IVDD episode.
You should also watch for other signs of pain that could indicate back problems. I'm sure you know them put here's a list just in case: yelping; trembling or shaking; arched back; reluctance to move; tight/tense stomach holding a leg up and not wanting to use it; dog's personality is not back...not interested in things or head held in an unusual position...head down or nose up high
I'm hoping Wilson's issues turn out to be related only to his paw issue, but I fully understand your wish to be cautious. You have to be on alert with an IVDD dog for signs of recurring disc problems.
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