Katie's Tango 3/2 Conserv- NECK-Chinese Crstd- GRAD 4/27

Welcome to Dodgerslist,Katie! First thing to know is that it IS in the cards for your Tango to get back to enjoying life whether immediately walking during the short 8 weeks of conservative treatment it will take a disc to heal or waiting on more nerve repair - IVDD is not a death sentence. Find out why that is true: www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htm

These are the special things you can do for a neck disc episode:   dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htm

Stomach protection is a must: Phrase the question to your vet this very particular way: Is there a medical or health reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC (famotidine)? If there is no reason buy Pepcid AC at the grocery store. We follow vets who are proactive against not eating, vomit, diarrhea, bleeding ulcers by giving doxie-weight dogs 5mg Pepcid AC (famotidine) 30 minutes before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours. Source: 0.44mgs famotidine per pound twice a day www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.html

Please double check your reported 35mgs dose in mgs of the Norvox.  Norvox comes in 25mg, 75mg and 100mg scored caplets.

☐ These are the signs of pain to be on the lookout for: Any sign of pain at all between doses means the pain meds are not yet right and need to be adjusted..  It doesn't make sense that Tango was taken off Tramadol while he was in pain.. Discuss with your Vet right away!  Pain needs to be in control from one dose to the next. Pain slows down healing so never have any patience at all with it.  

•restless, can't find a comfortable position
•slow or reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions
•shivering-trembling •yelping when picked up or moved
•tight tense tummy •arched back, ears pinned back
•not eating due to painful chewing or in too much overall pain
•head held high or nose to the ground.
•looks up with just eyes and does not move head and neck easily.
•holds front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight
•not their normal perky selves

Full pain relief is expected in 1 hour and stays that way dose to dose of correctly Rx/d pain meds. ♦️"There is medicine and there is healing. Healing requires rest and comfort, and all patients should be kept as comfortable as possible. Studies have shown a correlation between less pain and faster recovery from illness, surgery, or injury." ♦️ Barak Benaryeh, DVM, DABVP. "Identifying Pain in Geriatric Patients." Veterinary Team Brief. NOV/Dec 2015.

☐ Let us know you are on the same page about crate rest. The hallmark component of conservative treatment is the crate rest part. With little blood supply discs are much slower to form good scar tissue than it takes a blood rich broken bone to heal. That 6 weeks of a cast for a broken arm to heal is similar to the recovery suite being a kind of cast for the disc. 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks provides limited movement to allow good strong scar tissue to form. Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm

STRICT means:
•no laps ----> •no couches
•no baths --> •no sleeping with you
•no chiro therapy
•no dragging or meandering at potty times.

Carry to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very few limited footsteps. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog's back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot.



An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on!

☐ Why Chiropractic is not recommended for pain for an IVDD dog: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htm

☐ Currently can your dog wobbly walk? Move the legs at all? Or wag the tail when you specifically do some happy talk?

☐ Can your dog specifically sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up?

☐ Eating and drinking OK? Poops OK - normal firmness & color -no dark or bright red blood?

With this disease self-education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The goal of our Forum is to support you, to teach you how to look up things at the original source point (a credible and authoritative resource), question everything and read so you become the most important part of your dog's health care team. Good place to start your self-education: www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm

All of us here have dogs with IVDD so we know what you are going through having been through it with our own dogs.. We are here to help!   Healing thoughts and prayers!

Hi Katie and Tango.  

What a beautiful little dog Tango is.  I was reading your story.  While I don't know anything about the Nerve Root Signature Pain that Pauliana was speaking about in her reply to you, I have dealt with neck disc pain. It struck my 6 yr old dachshund Mila last Autumn. It was exactly like your story, she went under my duvet in perfect health and next morning when I moved her to get her up she was squealing like a pig. She would lift her left front paw from the floor as well, as if it was injured. It was so distressing, an x-ray at the vets didn't show anything but he said best course was crate rest, suspecting it was an IVDD issue, and to treat her with meds such as rimadyl and gabapentin.  When she would have an episode, her whole body would tense up, of course with pain it would, I discovered covering her with a warm towel and like you rubbing her back and shoulders, but gently, relaxed her quite quickly. I then invested in a snugglepad for her, which she loved and still does. the heat seemed to comfort and soothe her.  I noticed things triggered the spasms, like sniffing outside when at potty, so I got a pen, to restrict the steps and sniffing. Visitors to the house triggered them as well, so I contacted the more frequent guests and asked them to hold off for a while. I thought she'd never be the same dog again, and the crate rest took a long 11/12 weeks, however, at the end of it, I had my Mila back, she was as good as before, I just wanted you to know that crate rest does work, and that there is absolutely every reason to believe that Tango will recover from this and there will be brighter days ahead. Wishing him a speeding recovery and all the best for you both.  

We do not typically see collars prescribed for neck dogs. I don't know what brand collar you speak of. A collar would restrict movement not allowing the neck muscle to remain strong. Doesn't allow the dog to place his neck where most comfortable for him.

The way to keep a dog out of pain is that the medications be properly prescribed. Usually it will take three different meds each working on a different kind of pain:
--Tramadol 3x/day as the general analgesic
--Gabapentin for nerve pain 3x/day
-- methocarbamol for the pain from muscle contractions 3x/day.

Have ou been seeing signs of pain since the pain meds where last adjusted on Jan 16th

Could you let us know for how many days he is to take Norvox? 

FYI: the day Norvox stops that will be the test if there is still painful swelling in the cord.

Any pain is too much pain. Have no patience with pain as it does hinder healing. I understand that his pain is better than it was but the fact that his back is hunched indicates there is still back pain. Neck injuries are usually more painful than back injuries and can take longer to heal. It's a good sign that he hasn't had back spasms which the Methocarbamol is helping. As Paula mentioned, to get Tango's pain completely under control, which it should be for healing and for his own comfort, Gabapentin should be prescribed 3x/day as it has a short half life and Tramadol can be added as a general pain reliever. Please speak to the vet about any sign of pain you're still observing so he's aware of it and can adjust the pain meds.

Please also speak to him about adding Pepcid AC to protect against the side effects of the Novox. . Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "Is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If your vet says your dog has no health issues such as liver, heart, etc to keep her from taking Pepcid AC, then do get it on board.

The crate size looks OK. Does she have room to lie on her side with her legs comfortably extended?

It does take a full 8 weeks of strict crate rest to heal a damaged disc and allow it to form scar tissue. Keep the crate rest very strict, only out to potty, carry in and out to potty with very few steps allowed at potty time. Be sure to soften hard kibble and raise food/water dishes so she doesn't have to bend her head. More info here with a link on how to attach dishes to inside of crate: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htm

Katie, do take a look over on the Main Website--- Dodgerslist.com for the supplies list that make crate rest go smoother. There you will see the size a crate should be both for a round mattress and for a rectangular mattress, a DIY water/food bowl attachment. Water should always be accessible inside of the recovery suite. Check out the Supplies List here:: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htm

A crate on a wagon would also need to be secured so that leaning or jumping against the sides will not cause the crate to topple off the wagon. You crate does look a bit small because Tango has pretty long legs and can't stretch them all fully out when sleeping on her side.

The wheels are very wide base and the cage is completely secured to the wagon bed, I have rubber chak blocks that go under the tires so there is very very little shake to cage ... I have an ex cage ordered that should be here tomorrow so he can have enough room to stretch those legs out. 

The. Vet also put him on 5 mg of ▲fomidine ( Pepcid acid reducer) yesterday  he hasn’t had any problems yet so hopefully this will ward problems off. 

[14 lbs
Novox 75mg tab as of 1/13: 37.5mgs 1x/day for 14 days, then Sat. 1/27 then stop to test for pain/neuro loss
Methocarbamol 125mgs 3x/day
Gabapentin 100 mg 2x/day
Pepcid AC (famotidine)  5mgs  ?x/day
Acepromazine 2.5mg 2x/day if needed]

I want to THANK YOU , And ALL THE WONDERFUL PEOPLE HERE SOOO MUCH !! ya’ll. Been a God send to me ❤️

Thank you Mary

well I hadn’t thought about 2 trips being 1 too much. But yeah good point. In fact I just called and rescheduled the next treatment until Monday afternoon.  That will give him 3 days between, and we will see how that works. 

Hi Katie,

Use only Famotidine (Pepcid AC)..  no other ingredients..    We use 5mg (1/4 of 20 mg) 30 minutes before anti inflammatory and again 12 hours later..   2 times a day only!

Hope this  helps!  

Thank u Pauline

the vet TECH said once a day, so your giving 5x 2? Of famodtidine 

Also is I got an ex cage just now, I set up this octogram because the rectangle wasn’t big enough for this bed. Is this too big ? Right now he’s really chilled out sideways in the bed stretching his font legs.  

Sorry i’m Being such a pest but the devil is in the details, I’ve learned thru the years even a little missed detail can make a Hughe diff

i can not say THANK YOU GUYS enough! So here is his new set up, the pillow in the back is just a temp block, if I fold the cage to the next size smaller it’s too small for his long legs, so the next trip BACK TO WALMART gonna find a piece of foam or something that will fit right and block about 1 ft of length off.  U can see he’s already laying flat w more stretch of his legs.   That’s his fav mushed up hedge hog in a sock toy that is his security banket. Put it in he laid his head on it n went zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

had to put his in the little cage while I set this up, he whined the whole time. Only prob with this set up is I have to bend my bad back to pick him up to go pee n poo.  BUT, it’s all about the babies around here, if they r comfortable that’s all that matters!

PS we JUST GOT 25 mpgs or what ever that is called speed wise on the puter, like TODAY JUST NOW.... we did have 1.5  I can open pages n links now .....yeeee hawwwww....yes I live in The sticks 

Brilliant Paula!
Never thought of the plexaglass, think I’ve got a pice out in my studio that will work! And great idea about flipping the cage and the lifting sheet! My Back Owes you big time!

OMG .... got the cage the right size,put a blanket pinned all around so he wouldn’t be tempted to stand or climb because it’s what Chinese Crested’s DO BEST. 

had to take hubs to hospital for a little procedure this morn, left at 7got back at noon, he’s standing straight up peeking through the blanket. Put it all in place pin it all back, go to dressing room at back of house. Hear a howl thunk, then here comes Tango Running down the hall as happy as any goober could be, I scream head for him and he thinks the game is on, runs into living room and jumps from chair to chair, before I get him caught.  Finally get him back in little cage and he screams like he broke his back again.... grab the baby gate put it over the big cage , he’s much happier (no screaming)  but as u can see it’s stand on the back legs 

ok so thinking only thing I can do now it come up with some sort of solid dog proof wire that I can lower the ceiling and is totally dog safe so he can’t PUSH his head thru n hang himself....

Will be 3 weeks this Friday, there’s  NO WAY he could be this healed is there.  What if instead of it was a disk it was an impinged nerve?   I’m at a loss, and to do an MRI have to got to universality of Missouri 4 hours away and cost $$$$$$$$

OPINIONS???

Jan 29, 2018 at 5:31pm  no that wasn’ tied on, plus it was too big and wouldn’t let the door open or close, I was just trying out ideas, so we’re gonna use this peg board cut to fit, however the door opending is happy and will let me pull it open a tish, and he IS an escape artist so I don’t want any gap that he could shove his nose into and then get trapped by his neck... we’re even drilling holes in the big cage bottom I’ve used for the back to secure it tight. Hubby n I r both working on the door gap problem....

hopefully Tango will inspire the anti-escape cage that might help someone else that has a Hoduni
will show pix when we get er done good...
-----------------

well this is what we’ve come up with a Tango escape non tangle up prof recovery center....

the peg peg board is plastic tied from the holes to the cage wires heavy ties, 3 on every side it has NO GIVE. the weird drawer looking thing fits down over 2 bolts that have washers and hex screwy things to tighten up on the top of the leg board, then u wiggle the drawer looking thing on top of the bolts and the front pushed the little gap in the door that he was trying to shove a nose thru, completely flat and tight. 

Cant dangle a towel to lower the ceiling because he deems that as an official chew toy and pulls it down and  CHEWS it up,  or worried about the towels, but oh my don’t want guts full of towels 

since his Monday climb n escape he hasn’t been as perky, and this has been perfect. 

Paula
He was a bit slower, after the cage escape, but no real signs of pain. He is still on full meds, and laser treatments. He’s actually feeling a bit “froggy” trying to dash out of his cage and making an attempt to dash to the end of his leash when we go out to pee.  I do see a tiny bit of pain when he try’s something stupid, like Yesterday he had his head n neck twisted way around licking his butt.... when he straightened out he let out a little whine. But it wasn’t the terrible pain scream he uses when he’s in bad pain. 

More than anything he’s doing the poor me in the cage pitiful dog groan. Last night I let his brother sit in the cage with him while I was setting here watching TV. Yoshi is very small and they were crate together all their life’s. It seemed to perk him up a bit. 

Am being (besides last night) super strict about no movement out of the box except 3 times a day to p n poo, and then the most we’ve walked to poo is about 48 feet, generally I can get him to go poo in 6 ft, so he has had extremely little movement for the last 3 weeks. 

I was reading another dogs post post and she was talking about letting her dog sit beside her on the couch. Is that acceptable? He sits on my lap at the vets office behaving. I am having withdrawals not holding him!!

thanks again 
Katie

 Sat we will be doing our 6 laser treatment, and Dr is going to back him off some of his meds, Novox, we r going to 35 mg x 1 a day???, ▼gabapentin 100 mg a day for the next 5 days then off, the methocarbamol will continue 1/4 tab x 3 day 135 mg per day. We are completely off the tramadol and the acepromazine am still giving the 5 mg of famodtidine x2 day

[14 lbs
Novox 75mg tab as of 1/13: 37.5mgs 1x/day for 14 days, then Sat. 1/27 stop to test for pain/neuro loss 
                          as of 2/2:   37.5mgs 1x/day for 14 days, then Fri 2/16  stop to test for pain/neuro loss
Methocarbamol 125mgs 3x/day
Gabapentin 100 mg ▼1x/day
Pepcid AC (famotidine) 5mgs 2x/day
Acepromazine 2.5mg 2x/day if needed]

Good news
went I. Yesterday Feb 6 2018 for our 6th laser treatment ...it’s been three weeks since his injury, my bet went over him with a fine tooth comb and said he was very pleased, he has much better range of motion in the area over the hurt disk, and didn’t cry in pain one time.  so he has 2 more laser treatments at this time

Dr n I discussed me doing massage AND I have a tens unit for my back, I tried it on him once but was afraid it might not be good, after discussion he said yes use it daily. From my own pain Dr I learned using it very low setting is a healing help and not a pain block.  Now this isn’t researched much In dogs because of the hair, but having a Hairless Dog is a plus here!!!!!  

So to test the settings in case anyone sees this and wants to try, put the leads in the MOST SENSITIVE area you have, and turn it until you only feel a slight buzz, no pin feeling....

ill let u know

Post by Katie & Tango on Feb 1, 2018 at 11:57pm
Arg my brain and dates r horrible. starting the new regime of all above meds Ground Hog day Feb 2 2018. I will be giving for the next 14 days 37.5 mg of novox at noon. We will re-evaluate at the end of the 14 days as to what he wants to keep him on.

he is painful tonight, I had to drive him to the vet today in my 1ton pickup truck, and no matter how slow I take our bumpy back dirt roads, it rides a lot rougher than my hubbys car that I had been useing.