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Post by Sarah & Clifton on Oct 11, 2017 15:54:51 GMT -7
Hello- Our dog, Clifton, had an episode with his neck almost exactly 2 years ago. At that time we did conservative treatment (6-8 weeks rest and medication) and he recovered with no issues. We made modifications around the house and he did great.
About 2 weeks ago I started to notice his neck being stiff again and slowly turning his head. We knew it was probably the same thing so we immediately took him to the ER vet and they said since we caught it early we would try the conservative treatment again. He started off looking like he was improving, but about 5 days in I started to notice he was having issues with his right front leg/paw (knuckling, unbalanced). His leg seemed to get worse quickly so the next day we took him back to the ER vet and they recommended CT and said he would likely go straight to surgery depending on how the tests came back. They found intervertebral disc herniation at C4-C5 and it was protruding to the right which was causing the nerve damage in the right leg. He had the cervical surgery (ventral slot decompression at C4-C5 and intervertebral disc fenestration at C2-C3) on 10/3 and we were able to bring him home on 10/4. He made improvements immediately and his right leg was functioning normally again the day after surgery (no knuckling, able to balance on it). However, he is very wobbly when he walks around. I am wondering if that is from the nerve damage or lack of strength/recovering and if that will get better with time. We are on 6-8 weeks of strict bed rest, only out for bathroom breaks, and on medication. Medications include Tramadol 50mg every 8 hours, Methocarbamol 500mg 1/2 tablet every hours, and Trazadone 50mg every 12 hours. We will visit the surgeon again 2 weeks post op. I would love to hear anyone else's stories about recovery and any suggestions to help. We are planning to speak with a local holistic vet about acupuncture and changing his diet. Has anyone had success with that? I appreciate any feedback. Thank you!
☆ 1 How much does your dog weigh? 28# Beagle mix
Medications include Tramadol 50mg every 8 hours, Methocarbamol 500mg 1/2 tablet every hours, and Trazadone 50mg every 12 hours
[Moderator's note: please do not modify
28lbs
Tramadol 50ngs 3x/day
methocarbamol 250mgs 2x/day
trazadone 50mgs 2x/day]
☆ 2 Which breed? What is your dog's name? Your name? Clifton "Clif" Beagle mix
☆ 3 We saw a specialist surgeon for the treatment and surgery
☆ 4 Surgery on 10/3 and started 6-8 weeks rest immediately
☆ 5 - showing no pain symptoms in his neck but slow to move around and wobbly walking
☆ 7 Yes, he is able to walk but wobbly. Has function in all 4 legs. He does wag his tail.
☆ 8 He is able to go pee on his own.
☆ 9 Yes, eating and drinking normally. He isn't going poop every day which I assume is his meds. I plan to call our vet today and see if there is something to help his stomach - any suggestions?
Update: About 5 days after surgery, Clif tripped when walking to go to the bathroom. He immediately started yelping in pain so we rushed him back to the ER vet. They looked him over and said everything looked ok. They did add ✚Gabapentin to help ease the pain.
[Moderator's note: please do not modify
28lbs
Tramadol 50ngs 3x/day
methocarbamol 250mgs 2x/day
trazadone 50mgs 2x/day
✚gabapentin 100mgs 2x/day]
Before tripping he was doing so good and no signs of pain. It's been 3 days since he tripped [10/7] and he will yelp in pain when he goes from laying down to standing up - not every time though, maybe 1-2 times per day. He will yelp for a few seconds, then stops, and seems fine and willl move on with eating or going out to pee with no problem. I'm just really worried he may have messed something up from the surgery after he tripped. We have our follow-up with the surgeon beginning of next week. Has anyone else had a similar situation? Any suggestions?
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 11, 2017 20:04:13 GMT -7
Sarah, welcome to Dodgerslist. We are glad you’ve joined us on the support Forum ! While we are not veterinarians, we have lots to share with you. Our main goal is to help you become educated about IVDD so you can better work with the vet you’ve hired, protect your dog and give proper care during this episode, but also to be able to live many happy years ahead with the disease your dog was born with. Knowledge, is indeed, the power to fight this IVDD enemy and win! You may want to print this out as it is your road map for the next 6-8 weeks of post-op rest-- bookmark so you can read the valuable info in the next days at the main Dodgerslist website, “All Things IVDD” : www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm Thank you for providing such full information about Clif. He appears to have had a very successful outcome iwth the surgery with pain gone and almost normal function of front leg! Surgery itself can cause some tempoary setback until the swelling from it can subside...usually in two weeks time. What are the details about the gabapentin ? mgs ?x/day Call and ask that Tramadol be moved up to a more aggressive mg for a 28 lbs dog 3x/day |
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Post by Sarah & Clifton on Oct 12, 2017 4:50:27 GMT -7
Gabapentin 100mg every 12 hours
We are going to call the vet today and hopefully talk to his surgeon. I'm going to ask about adjusting meds.
Is it possible that a dog can reverse the surgery by tripping a week postop? That's what I am really terrified has happened. Mainly because he was doing great the first 5 days/no signs of pain, trips and immediately yelps, and now has these pain episodes throughout the day. I asked the vet this the night we took him in after falling and she explained he looked good and no signs in neurological changes. But why still all this pain?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 12, 2017 7:44:54 GMT -7
Sarah, we'll be looking forward to hearing what the surgeon has to say. The "tripping" could cause different things causing pain--- tear to some surgical incision causing pain, caused another disc to bulge/herniate, etc. Your surgeon is the best one to give a diagnosis..
IF, the tripping caused pressure to the same or a different disc, then this is the order worsening goes in. It starts with mild signs of pain only. As the spinal cord receives more pressure then nerves start to be affected. IF this is another disc, then with mild signs conservative treatment of strict rest, an anti-inflammatory to help get swelling down and pain meds are used.,
1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord
2. Wobbly walking, legs cross
3. Nails/toes scuffing floor
4. Paws knuckle
5. Weak/little leg movement, can't move up into a stand
6. Legs do not work at all (paralysis, dog is down)
7. Bladder control is lost
8. Tail wagging with joy is lost
9. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment.
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Post by Sarah & Clifton on Oct 12, 2017 9:32:17 GMT -7
My husband talked the surgeon this morning and he said it's common for pain to arise about a week after surgery. The medicine from surgery starts to wear off about that point, dogs feel better, and may push themselves too hard/too fast. He said they see this happen a lot. He's not showing any other symptoms right now, just the occasional pain/yelping outbursts. We are going to try giving him the ▲Tramadol every 6 hours instead of 8 hours. Our 2 week follow-up is scheduled for next Thursday and hopefully we can get more answers then. For now, we just keep him safe and comfortable. This is so stressful... I just want him better. 😞
[Moderator's note: please do not modify
28lbs
Tramadol 50ngs ▲4x/day
methocarbamol 250mgs 2x/day
trazadone 50mgs 2x/day
gabapentin 100mgs 2x/day]
Thank you for all the help and support! It's greatly appreciated.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Oct 12, 2017 13:26:18 GMT -7
Good news that the surgeon does not think that Clifton's pain is anything serious.
When you take him out of his crate to potty are you using a harness and lease to keep him from doing too much? When they stat to feel better they do want to get going so we pet parents have to watch fo that.
Let us know if giving the tramadol every 6 hours keeps Clifton from feeling pain.
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Post by Sarah & Clifton on Oct 12, 2017 15:05:07 GMT -7
Yes, taking him out with a cross body leash (going under one arm and around torso). He is good when walking around and shows no pain. It's only been when he is in his kennel and goes from laying down to standing up - not every time but maybe 1-3 times per day. We will try increasing Tramadol frequency and see if that helps.
Thanks.
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Post by Sarah & Clifton on Oct 15, 2017 11:28:57 GMT -7
We have been giving Clif the Tramadol every 6 hours now and that seems to have helped some. Last night, he yelped a few times when he went to move around in his kennel. It happened about 45 minutes before his Gabapentin was due (every 12 hours). I went a head and gave it to him early and he was fine after. I took him out to pee about an hour after that and he showed no signs of pain, walked fine, wagged his tail, and peed. I've noticed when he has these signs of pain, it's typically at night and when he moves positions in his kennel. It also seems to not be coming from his neck (no muscle tension, no spasms) but more from his legs so maybe nerve related?? I'm wondering about asking the vet about giving Gabapentin to him maybe every 10 hours? Or if there is anything else to do to help the pain. It will be 2 weeks since his surgery on Tuesday. I'm also worried how long most dogs stay on all these pain meds. I can't imagine he can come off them anytime soon.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 15, 2017 12:01:15 GMT -7
Sarah, it can take about 2 weeks for all of the surgically caused painful swelling to subside for most dogs and thus the need to stay with pain meds til the swelilng has been resolved.
Gabapentin has a short half life, so it may be a good idea to advocate with the vet for every 8 hours on the gabapentin as you see gabapentin is wearing off nearing the 12 hours mark.
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Post by Sarah & Clifton on Oct 15, 2017 12:23:36 GMT -7
Thanks for the advice. Good to know about the Gabapentin. I'm going to call the vet in the morning and see if we can increase frequency. He seems great otherwise.
On average, how long are dogs on medication? The full 6-8 weeks? I guess I was just worried they would want to start tapering after our 2 week follow-up (scheduled for Thursday) and don't think he will be ready for awhile...
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 15, 2017 12:43:15 GMT -7
The pain meds are used for the period of time it takes to get all the surgical caused swelling down...about 2 weeks for most dogs, some dogs may take longer.
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Post by Sarah & Clifton on Oct 19, 2017 14:36:37 GMT -7
Update on Clif - We had his 2 week follow-up with the surgeon today and he was really happy with where Clif is at. They said we can start reducing his meds and take short 5-10 minute walks. We will continue his kennel rest for another 4-6 weeks. He still has some small yelps here and there, but nothing major. Typically it's when he is in kennel and shifting positions. Hoping he continues to head in the right direction. So far so good... 🤞
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Oct 19, 2017 14:48:07 GMT -7
Very good news about Clifton doing so well at his follow-up.
I am a bit concerned about the yelping at a time when pain meds are being reduced. How often does that happen?
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Post by Sarah & Clifton on Oct 21, 2017 5:29:53 GMT -7
The yelping isn't very often and has gotten better every day. We had increased his medication frequency and added Gabapentin after he stumbled about a week ago so we are first going back to the original medication plan (now Tram every 8 hours instead of 6, Metho every 8 hours, Traz we are cutting back to 1x a day/only has a couple pills left, and tapering off the Gabapentin). Thursday was the first time since the surgery that he seemed like his old self. He is happy, has energy, wagging his tail, and sleeping better (last night was the first time I have heard him snore since before all of this happened). I'm feeling confident and hopeful. It's just a matter of keeping him calm and relaxed for 4-6 more weeks. Then figuring out the plan to keep him safe and avoid a relapse after the rest period. Our vet said it's very unlikely he would rerupture the same discs from surgery, but it's all the other discs we have to worry about. After the kennel rest, can dogs go up/down stairs? Not indoors but we have 4 steps on our back deck and I wasn't sure if he could use those again or if we need a ramp?? .
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 21, 2017 6:08:12 GMT -7
When a dog has IVDD, there are some things that need to be done to help prevent strain on the spine. No more going up or down steps/stairs - add ramps over any steps. No more jumping up or down on furniture. Train to use ramps to furniture or use furniture blockers and keep Clifton on the floor. No more standing up on hind legs. No rambunctious playing with other dogs. Here's our page on after crate rest care with a list of never-again activities and IVDD friendly activities: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmHere's our page on how to make your home back friendly. There's a link on that page to a video on how to train your dog to use a ramp. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htmPlease continue to keep us updated. |
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Post by Sarah & Clifton on Nov 1, 2017 18:47:16 GMT -7
This is great information! Thank you for all the help and advice.
Today is 4 weeks since surgery and Clif is doing amazing! He has been off all medication for about 4-5 days now and no issues. He hasn't yelped nor shown any signs of pain or discomfort. We will continue at least 2 more weeks of kennel rest. After that, I am wondering how dogs with disc disease interact with other dogs in the family. We have a 7 month old dog who of course has a lot of energy and loves to play. We are planning to do a 2 week obedience school with her, but any other suggestions? Has anyone else successfully had their dogs interact safely? Thank you.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 2, 2017 8:38:44 GMT -7
Sarah, wonderful to hear off all meds and no signs of pain. Is the 7 mos dog a beagle too? You will always want to supervise whenever the exuberant dog is with Clifton that things do not get too rambunctious. Teaching both of them about 4 feet on the floor, how to use a ramp is a very good idea where the how to videos are covered in the link Marjorie gave: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmAnother thing to consider with other dogs is the inborn instinct about weakness is for survival protection of the pack as a whole. There are two things that can happen in pack dynamics when a dog has been or is sick. 1. The healthy one may try to eliminate the weaker in the pack. 2. For the sick one, now the weaker in the pack to become more protective and aggressive because they know they are weaker now and may be subject to being attacked. Make sure that Clifton always feels protected from his best bud when home alone... the crate will be that source of protection. Whenever you leave the house and they are not supervised, it is a good idea to crate them for their own safety. We have had too many instances where a deadly attack among best buds could have been avoided by crating. One I recall is of two sisters who had grown up together and never showed any signs of aggression to one another. The two dogs were put in the kitchen while their owners went out to dinner. They came home to find the IVDD dog almost dead from the vicious attacks of the other. Would you consider helping another trying to make decisions… We have a directory where you can share surgical info. Here is where you can share your dog's info: dodgerslist.boards.net/board/10/guidelines-posting State: Hospital: Address: Cost: Date of surgery: What was included in cost (MRI?, days stay, ER? PT? meds for home, sling, etc.) Comments: |
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