Serena & Luna
New Member
FEMALE - Spaniel mix- conservative treatment
Posts: 37
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Post by Serena & Luna on Mar 8, 2017 13:26:27 GMT -7
Wolfie is a very active guy who came down with all the signs on Sunday and went to the emergency vet. We didn't know anything about this disease although the vet mentioned long backs have a tendency for problems. He had two bulging discs.
On tramidol and prednisone.
Had surgery sunday night, came home tuesday night. He's so happy as is his sister. On crate rest for 8 weeks, can move legs and stand wobbly. He stood for expressing pee, but can't hold bladder yet. I have only been able to express the tiniest pee, but my husband did a good job this morning.
Did some PT laying on side this morning and will do more sets today. He stretched out back leg when I did it. Also he's lifting front leg for his favorite belly rubs.
[Wolfie's weight? Prednisone as of 3/7: ? mgs ?x/day Tramado ? mgs ?x/day ]
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Mar 8, 2017 14:13:45 GMT -7
Hi Serena, welcome to Dodgerslist. Everyone here has a dog with IVDD so you have come to the right place. I am sorry that Wolfie is having disk problems but happy to hear that he is doing well after surgery. ▷ What is your name? I am Romy. I am going to ask a few questions to help us understand Wolfie's situation better. ▷ Is the surgeon a general practice DVM or a specialist (ACVIM neurology or ACVS ortho)? ▷ What was the date of the surgery? Are you now doing 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty and the surgeon directed PT? …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No chiro (aka VOM). What did your surgeon direct for PT and for post-op crate rest? Here are some super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm▷ Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move, tight tense tummy, can't find a comfortable position. Arched back. Holding front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight, head held high or nose to the ground. Not their normal perky selves. Full pain relief is expected in 1 hour and stays that way dose to dose. If not, your vet needs to know asap to adjust meds ▷ How much does Wolfie weigh? Please list the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mg's and times per day given? What was the start dose IF a steroid, date of taper? Please include the all important stomach protector such as Pepcid AC. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive against not eating, vomit, diarrhea, bleeding ulcers by giving dogs Pepcid AC (famotidine) 30 minutes before the anti-inflammatory. The usual dosein dogs is 0.44mg per pound every 12 hours. Give the anti-inflammatory with a meal for extra protection. ▷ Is Wolfie eating and drinking OK? Poops OK - normal firmness & color -no dark or bright red blood? Is Wolfie staying dry between expressings or do you find wet bedding or leaks when lifted? Expressing can be tricky to learn at first, but it is very important that the bladder be emptied by expressing and not allowed to overflow. Overflowing by reflex means the bladder must be overstretched and full of urine. That over stretching will cause permanent damage to the bladder wall...not good. The other bad thing is reflexes can't get all the urine out. What remains very quickly becomes a breeding ground for bacteria--- urinary tract infection (UTI). You will know you are expressing correctly when you get a steady stream of urine and Wolfie stays dry between expressing sessions. We have some information on expressing here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm#bladderexpressSurgery immediately removes the offensive disc material and stops the pressure on the spinal cord. Immediate neuro improvement may or may not come during the weeks of post-op rest… as nerves may take more than 6 weeks to heal… in fact there is no time limit for nerves to heal. There may be temporary neuro setbacks caused by the swelling the surgical procedure itself causes. Surgical swelling likely will subside in two weeks so that the true direction of nerve healing can better be seen. Dr. Isaacs, DVM, ACVIM (Neurology) addresses Dodgerslist members' questions on surgery: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/surgery.htmHere is some additional information to enhance your knowledge of surgery and the usual questions we all have had. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htmHealing thoughts for Wolfie.
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Serena & Luna
New Member
FEMALE - Spaniel mix- conservative treatment
Posts: 37
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Post by Serena & Luna on Mar 10, 2017 18:13:41 GMT -7
Hi Romy, I'm Serena and my husband is Josh
I believe Woflie's surgeon is a specialist. Surgery date was 4/5 came home 4/7, strict crate rest. Good recovery suite set up before he came home. PT: passive range of motion 3xday, one 5 min. walk on a sling support, bounces 3xday
Not currently showing pain. Got a soft cone, he seems really comfy. Can reposition in crate and sit up to eat dinner, drink water now, shake off, scratch ear with back leg. Can stretch out legs.
Wolfie was 22 lbs before surgery not sure now.
Prednisone [as of 3/9] 5 mg, 2xday every 12 hours five days, 1 tab every 24 hours 5 days, 1 tab every 48 hours 5 days. Tramidol 20 mg 1-2 tabs every 8 hours. We're doing 1 tab every 12 hours now, no sign of pain.
Asked about pepcid, they said if he eats before hand works as a stomach protector.
Eating well as of yesterday after home made plain chicken by grandma, and broth. Hasn't pooped yet, vet said was okay.
He's leaking between expressing, we have only been sucessfull a few times. Husband and I can both do it sometimes and it worked well, but having a bit of a time getting it. I feel bladder sometimes but can't get anything. Vet says he may be resisting a little since he is gaining movement in the back legs more. They may prescribe something to help us. I did watch all your helpful videos, thank you. I know it's matter of practice.
Thank you for healing thoughts, what I want most now is to express the bladder well so I can help him.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 10, 2017 18:48:48 GMT -7
Serena are you expressing every 2-3 hours while on pred. With extra thirst this med causes, the bladder will quickly fill up again.
When bladder control starts to return, then, yes it can be more difficult to express because they can feel you doing it an don't like it. The only way for us humans to know if there is bladder control is with the sniff and pee test. Carry outdoors, set on an old pee spot to sniff it. See if urine is then released. Make sure the sling or your hands are not on the tummy area as that can press on the bladder. If he marks or releases urine after sniffing, bladder control is returning. You should do a quick express check to verify there is full voiding until you are certain it is consistently happening. Let us know what you observe.
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Serena & Luna
New Member
FEMALE - Spaniel mix- conservative treatment
Posts: 37
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Post by Serena & Luna on Mar 10, 2017 21:53:47 GMT -7
The vet told me this info too this evening. She said to give him some time to let it happen. We tried it, he did dribble some pee several times. My husband monitored him while I dribbled water out of a watering can so he could hear running water noises. It was amazing. He has been more thirsty today so that was challenging but this is a bright light for us.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 11, 2017 11:00:10 GMT -7
Serena, keep us posted on the sniff part of the "sniff and pee" test. If he can sniff and then make the decision to mark on that sniffed spot, then bladder control is starting to return.
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Serena & Luna
New Member
FEMALE - Spaniel mix- conservative treatment
Posts: 37
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Post by Serena & Luna on Mar 11, 2017 15:21:39 GMT -7
It worked! Took about 20 minutes but he had a good puddle going. Has happened 3 times and he's much drier. Trying to get him on his regular pee time schedule. We did it outside and then inside on a pee pad which was convenient. Never thought I'd be so pleased for my dog to urinate inside.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Mar 11, 2017 15:35:53 GMT -7
Great news! Now that you are successfully expressing taking care Of Wolfie will be much easier.
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Serena & Luna
New Member
FEMALE - Spaniel mix- conservative treatment
Posts: 37
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Post by Serena & Luna on Mar 11, 2017 18:38:43 GMT -7
He's actually peeing on his own now. We aren't expressing him, the peeing has worked four to five times today.
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 12, 2017 6:41:37 GMT -7
Such an excellent sign of nerve healing, Serena! So glad for you all.
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Serena & Luna
New Member
FEMALE - Spaniel mix- conservative treatment
Posts: 37
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Post by Serena & Luna on Mar 13, 2017 9:46:13 GMT -7
Last weeek he was having on 50 mg tramidol twice a day. We decreased it ▼[tramadol] to one yesterday but I think it's not enough. He seemed stressed this am, panting, not wanting to settle down, could see stress under his eyes. I gave him one tramidol then and he settled after an hour. My husband was also going to work this morning after the weekend so I wasn't sure if that was the stress. But he's napping now finally so I think it's pain meds. Hasn't pooped still may also be discomfort from that. I tried to stimulate him to poop but no go. Have given some pumpkin and vet mentioned Metamucil which I'll try after I talk to them today.
Post by Serena & Wolfie on 23 hours ago Hasn't pooped yet but he's still on pain meds so part of side effect. It seems like he may want to soon based on the way he's moving when at the pee spot.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 13, 2017 10:02:38 GMT -7
Serena, it often can take 2 weeks for all of the surgical related pain to subside. So better to ensure he is in comfort by using the more aggressive dose prescribed.
Did you give extra water with the pumpkin?
Plain pureed canned pumpkin is a magical fruit - its high fiber can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation. The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference. NOTE: alternatives are really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potatoe. --To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal and soak overnight. At mealtime, doxies we add one teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. For a 22 pound dog, you may need to experiment if it's 1-2 teaspoons of pumpkin. -- To firm up the stool add 1 teaspoon plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day to kibble and no extra soaking water to the kibble.
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Serena & Luna
New Member
FEMALE - Spaniel mix- conservative treatment
Posts: 37
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Post by Serena & Luna on Mar 13, 2017 13:56:35 GMT -7
I did give him extra water with his kibble and pumpkin with home cooked chicken. Actually soaked kibble in homemade chicken broth (fat removed). He's also drinking a lot of water on his own and I'm offering him more out of another container other times of day to make sure.
He has completely settled down now so it must be pain. Thanks for the timeline advice.
He's getting bladder function as far as peeing sometimes when taken to potty spot for a while. But still needs pee pad changing so often. I'm trying to get a regular schedule going.
Vet said not to worry too much about not pooping yet because of pain meds and effect of anesthesia.
Yesterday he was walking nicely for 5 minutes with sling help and not dragging the front of foot, it's placed on the pad. Was very happy doing that will keep it up daily per instructions.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 13, 2017 15:46:33 GMT -7
Serena, nice to hear about good paw placement! Sounds like Wolfie is going in the right direction of healing. While on pred, I would take him out doors everyt 3-4 hours. See if that keeps him dry. Once off of pred, he can easily hold his urine as he has always done for 4-6 hours. Maybe 8 hrs especially during the dark hours of the night when the body naturally produces less urine.
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Serena & Luna
New Member
FEMALE - Spaniel mix- conservative treatment
Posts: 37
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Post by Serena & Luna on Mar 14, 2017 8:28:30 GMT -7
Finally a poop this morning! He was super stressed trembling and panting took to pee spot and he peed a little then took a few steps to the other side of where I was sitting and finally pooped! He got in the posture correctly too. I held up his front a little. Then peed and went to another spot where he pooped some more.
He totally relaxed right after that and you could see it happen. Now sleeping so peacefully. I think he may have wanted to go yesterday too after breakfast which is when he was tense.
Hopefully he can establish a routine, he usually pooped after breakfast. Taking him out for pee breaks too, trying to keep some of them to his normal routine schedule from before. I think we maybe had less pee last night, it's the second day of only one prednisone a day.
Should I expect more regular poops now? I may put up a pen area for him to sniff around, since he wanted to move away from the front of the house. Seems to be peeing on command more when taken outside. Still accidents especially when it was warm today, but little bit better. We trained him when he was a puppy with "go potty" and a countdown from 12-1. The funny thing now is that he pees more when we scratch his ears or neck.
Did his five minute walking, walking so nicely. Does want to stop from time to time. We did about the same as yesterday.
I decided to think of all his outside time as a reward. All these are little step by step miracles and I'm so happy to see him doing so well after coming home just a week ago.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 14, 2017 17:41:48 GMT -7
I would guess that at some point he will be back to his more usual bathroom schedule. Wonderful to hear his walking is good.
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Serena & Luna
New Member
FEMALE - Spaniel mix- conservative treatment
Posts: 37
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Post by Serena & Luna on Mar 15, 2017 9:33:38 GMT -7
Another poop today after breakfast, same time as yesterday. He's getting a schedule down and we're so pleased. Still a lot of changing of pee pads, but will be tapering prednisone to every other day after Thursday. Looking forward to that. I change him at least every 2 hours now, or take him out. Hard to catch the timing before he goes. Getting better though!
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Mar 15, 2017 14:01:05 GMT -7
A schedule will make things much easier.
Once he is off the pred, there should be fewer accidents.
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Serena & Luna
New Member
FEMALE - Spaniel mix- conservative treatment
Posts: 37
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Post by Serena & Luna on Mar 16, 2017 10:49:09 GMT -7
Another milestone- yesterday he took a morning and evening poop after meals as was our previous regular schedule. This morning he took a normal pee! It had been coming out in dribbles before, taking at least 20 minutes with coaxing. Today he peed like a girl dog (in posture) and a giant stream came out as before surgery! Then another poop. He seemed so happy! Before that I applied the heating pack to his legs and did some prom, then some relaxing/stimulating brushing. Maybe that helped.
Walking was good again, we did just a little bit more. 2 3/4 - 3 laps, where previously he'd done 2 1/2. Both just five minutes.
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Serena & Luna
New Member
FEMALE - Spaniel mix- conservative treatment
Posts: 37
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Post by Serena & Luna on Mar 16, 2017 10:58:34 GMT -7
I found a really great foam supplier in Burbank, CA (near Los Angeles) www.foammart.com/They had great customer service, I went there in person but they also helped over the phone first. And they do have online ordering but I would call. Just FYI I got a 2" latex foam sheet, and 4" high density soft sheet (which is similar if not the same as what they have in couch cushions.) I plan to have the latex on top of the high density encased with a mattress protector, synthetic blanket, and pee pads. The foam is supportive, yet soft. I have a bed with latex top sheet, so I know it's comfortable. The cost was around $300, but that included the cutting labor which was $5/sheet. They cut 35" circles for me. I was able to get two sets of circles for two beds. They are really helpful and the cuts were good.
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Serena & Luna
New Member
FEMALE - Spaniel mix- conservative treatment
Posts: 37
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Post by Serena & Luna on Mar 17, 2017 11:22:25 GMT -7
Yesterday was our first day/night of no pee accidents, hooray!
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Mar 17, 2017 13:55:55 GMT -7
Way to go Wolfie!
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Serena & Luna
New Member
FEMALE - Spaniel mix- conservative treatment
Posts: 37
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Post by Serena & Luna on Mar 21, 2017 8:50:07 GMT -7
The DAP diffuser seems to be working, although I didn't expect anything so soon. Both dogs were really mellow and Luna, our younger dog didn't bark at the mailman, which is hard to believe.
Waiting on rescue remedy to arrive tomorrow. I'm also using the relaxing dog music I found on this site.
Had our two week checkup and suture removal this weekend. Everything went so well, the surgeon is so happy with the progress that we've made and said Wolfie is doing so well. He is allowing us a 10 minute walk a day right now, so we're doing that in two five minute potty breaks with a sling down to the neighbor's house. Wolfie is so happy to walk down there with his tail held high and wagging. His legs are looking good, just a little bit wobbly still but seems to be getting stronger. He was able to pee while lifting his leg too.
Yesterday we fenced off an area with his bed in it so he could be outside and watch us do weeding. I also gave him a treat ball in his suite during the day and that kept him busy for about 1 1/2 hours. He was so tired from those activities and had a really good sleep. Just trying to keep him a bit occupied in the suite so he doesn't get too bored. I'm going to try the DAP diffuser with some rescue remedy this week and see what that does.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 21, 2017 11:29:22 GMT -7
Serena, thanks for the feedback on the DAP difuser with both your guys! Sounds like you have a good handle on everything and Wolfie is doing a very good repair job on his muscles and nerves post op.
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Serena & Luna
New Member
FEMALE - Spaniel mix- conservative treatment
Posts: 37
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Post by Serena & Luna on Apr 17, 2017 10:40:50 GMT -7
We had our six week checkup this weekend and the vet has cleared Wolfie to slowly resume normal activities. He did do six weeks of crate rest and will still be in the crate when home without us. He will be allowed to go on longer walks slowly. WE took him up to the park where we would normally walk, he was so happy! The vet checked his gait and said it is great. He also made sure Wolfie would right his paws when they placed them improperly. He does not need PT, just increasing the duration of walks since his movement is very good. We are all very happy! We're still dog proofing our house and yard a bit. We are looking in to get a blocker for the stairs since we don't want him using them quite yet, or ever, we aren't sure. We have a ramp in our backyard and need a few more ways to limit what he does back there. We haven't allowed him to use the ramp yet but that will happen in the future.
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 17, 2017 21:30:04 GMT -7
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Serena & Luna
New Member
FEMALE - Spaniel mix- conservative treatment
Posts: 37
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Post by Serena & Luna on Apr 18, 2017 12:47:35 GMT -7
I love seeing the graduate sticker on my post!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 18, 2017 18:44:50 GMT -7
We love it too when a dog graduates...that's a milestone!!! Would you consider helping us? Help another trying to make quick decisions about surgery… We have a directory where you can share surgical costs and any comments you have. Here is the link to the directory where can post: dodgerslist.boards.net/board/10/guidelines-postingState: Hospital: Address: Cost: Date of surgery: What was included in cost (MRI?, days stay, ER? PT? meds for home, sling, etc.) Comments: -- Don't forget to add a photo to the Dodgerslist Photo gallery and 1-2 sentences. Give inspiration to others just starting a scary IVDD journey. Remember, too, to get your camera out for a graduation picture and a few sentences for the 2017 Dodgerslist Photo Gallery: LOGIN LOGIN www.dodgerslist.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=4 : username: Dachsie password: dodgerslist14 Or you can e-mail (owner's name, email addy, dog's name + photo caption) to : photogallery@dodgerslist.com
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Serena & Luna
New Member
FEMALE - Spaniel mix- conservative treatment
Posts: 37
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Post by Serena & Luna on Apr 24, 2017 10:31:07 GMT -7
Will fill out info on how things went to help new people here. That helped me.
Wolfie is having some soreness right now. Tail down and whined yesterday when he pooped. Maybe we overdid the walking. I'm going to take him to vet just to do a check up. I only have tramadol left and don't want to give anything too strong right now and will feel better having them check him. Going to his regular vet rather than the emergency vet who did his surgery.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 24, 2017 15:36:19 GMT -7
I would crate until the vet sees him. Hope it is just that he has be over exuberant.
We'll be waiting to hear what the vet thinks.
Thanks for the recommendation for our directory!
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