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Post by Marcie & Bradley on Dec 4, 2014 6:53:40 GMT -7
Here is an update on Trixie--it has been a long time since I have posted.
She has been doing laser and acupuncture twice a week for the last 6 weeks. She is in week 7 of the next 3 week package of 2 laser and 2 acupuncture sessions a week.
Her meds are: ▼Prednisone 10mg 1/4 twice a day Tramadol 50mg 1/4 twice a day Robaxin 500mg 1/4 2-3 times day (I have been giving twice a day)
I started the taper yesterday---it has been 8 weeks at full doses of the prednisone. I trying to taper the prednisone to once a day and the robaxin (I ran out of the tramadol but have more of it now) to see if she shows signs of pain. So far so good, more licking of her front feet, so I will watch her closely. No panting, whining or anything else.
The last assessment appt. with the vet was on 11/24. She again was not pleased with Trixie's progress.
Here is what Trixie can do---she moves the back legs pretty well. Still knuckles the left one and doesn't correct it on her own. She can put weight on rear legs pretty well though and hold it for a while. She moves them forward and sorta pushes forward when going potty.
Her front legs-these are very week. No deep pain sensation. Will put weight on them for a few seconds but not very long before they give. She is doing well to flip from side to side when she is in her crate. She attempts to "elbow" her front legs and sorta crawl toward her food or when I come with pill pockets. I have been doing some gentle movement with all 4 legs--bending and stretching--so to speak. The vet is concerned that she may never regain front legs.
She also does well to hold pee--I take her out about every 3-4 hours but there have been a few instances where she has accidents in the crate---(sometimes I am just gone too long and it is not avoidable on my part) I have pee pads in the crate but I don't feel like they lock it in and I feel bad she has laid on pee. Is there something else I should do in this instance--a better pad to put down?
I am hopeful the taper works--I don't want her on the drugs longer than necessary.
I am concerned she won't regain front legs and am debating on continuing the laser and acupuncture. Not sure if they are helping or not and the wallet is getting thin. I questioning her quality of life if she doesn't regain front legs----to just lay around all the time---it is hard to think she may not be happy.
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
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Post by StevieLuv on Dec 4, 2014 7:01:26 GMT -7
Hi Marcie, thank you for the update on Trixie. don't let your Vet discourage you, Trixie is making slow steady progress. I remember a Vet saying that about Stevie too, and I went home and cried - then got mad. Quality of life is based a whole lot on love and the pair of you have plenty of that! Here is an article for you to read about that. Great quality of life with IVDD www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htmRemember that nerves heal slowly and at their own pace, and no one not even a surgeon can predict how much function, and how fast it will return. Some dogs spend their lives scooting around in carts and love evedry minute of their lives with the people that they love. ( by the way Stevie did walk and run again )
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 4, 2014 9:44:42 GMT -7
Marcie until she is off all meds there should be no range of motion (ROM) or other passive PT. Is the taper of Pred also being accompanied by the stop of the two pain meds? Pain meds mask the reason for the taper to see if there is still any painful swelling going on in the spinal cord. If there would be pain then there is a need to continue Pred. If there is no pain then the taper continues and no medications at all are needed. The full details on how anti-inflammatory drugs work, the taper, etc.: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm As long as she is on Pred, Pepcid AC should be given 2x/day. Are you doing that? Nerves do not heal with any sort of medications. They self heal and we should think in terms of months rather than weeks. So as StevieLuv remarked it is way to premature to say a dog will never walk at 8 weeks. Laser or acupuncture are known to stimulate, cause energy to the nerve cells to promote the body to start regenerating.
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Post by Marcie & Bradley on Dec 4, 2014 17:48:17 GMT -7
I am giving Tramadol in the am with her one dose of prednisone. Yes she is getting the Pepcid AC as well.
So far so good on the taper. Today is just the second day. I got a little nervous at my dinner time, she started panting---but I think the old girl was hoping for some of my dinner.
As soon as I was done, the panting stopped and she went to sleep.
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Post by Marcie & Bradley on Dec 7, 2014 13:01:48 GMT -7
I began the prednisone taper on Wednesday. She was getting 5mg a day, once the taper started she was getting 2.5 mg a day. Today is day 5 and I didn't give her any today. She continues to drink a ton of water--is that normal even with the taper? No signs of pain, so today is the 1st day to start skipping days to end taking prednisone at all.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Dec 7, 2014 17:32:04 GMT -7
Excellent news on the taper being pain-free to far, Marcie! Continue to keep alert for any sign of pain returning or of any neuro function diminishment so you can immediately let your vet know. I hope that the taper continues to be pain-free. I think to make this a good test for pain, you should stop the one dose of Tramadol that you were giving her, too, if you haven't already done that. That way, nothing will be masking the pain and you'll be better able to tell if the swelling has resolved and the taper can continue.
Please continue to give the Pepcid AC 5 mg 2x/day for as long as Trixie is on any Prednisone. It takes awhile for the system to return to normal so the excessive thirst may continue for awhile.
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Post by Marcie & Bradley on Dec 8, 2014 7:31:17 GMT -7
Got it on the Tramadol. No signs of pain thru the evening and this am. She seems to pant in the evening -- I think it's for attention but don't want to rule out pain, she does this when I am having dinner. But she only does it for a few minutes. No signs of pain when picking up or anything like that.
She has laser and acupuncture this afternoon.
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Post by Marcie & Bradley on Dec 11, 2014 11:10:39 GMT -7
So far so good on the meds taper. She did yelp once today upon me picking her up but I think she was laying odd as it's the only time she has done anything. I do have a question, how long does a taper for the prednisone normally last. She did five days of half the original dose. She skipped her first day Sunday. The instructions from the vet on this part says "use until gone" but I have had so many refills I have a lot left. The vet is out or I would ask her and I am going out of town so I want to leave clear instructions with the sitter.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 11, 2014 11:39:13 GMT -7
Marcie, be careful on observing for pain on the taper. A yelp is highly suspicious of there still being inflammation in the spinal cord. Do you see any other confirming signs of other pain.... shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy?
When do you leave? The vet is really the only one who can prescribe meds. So get a call into the vet for the details on the taper. Also tell him you are leaving and have a plan B if the sitter should see signs of pain on the taper of what to do.
How are her front legs, have you seen movement, trying to move up in to a sitting or standing position?
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Post by Marcie & Bradley on Dec 11, 2014 11:54:12 GMT -7
No other signs of pain. Which is why I think the yelp was from how she was laying and how I picked her up. No shivering, or anything else. The only other time she does anything odd is panting when I am eating dinner. I suspect she is hoping for food and is not in pain. Again, as soon as I am done eating, the panting stops.
Her front legs are mostly the same---she will sit up but uses her neck and front legs to do this movement. I try to prop up up so she isn't laying on her side all day long. She will "chase" a treat meaning she will get on her hind legs and "elbow" with her front legs to the treat that I place just an inch or so past her reach. She also does this to move around in her space.
This Friday will be 10 weeks.
She has an accident yesterday, which was probably my fault for not taking her out sooner. I lost track of the day and she had peed. Couldn't have been more than 10-15 or so. What would the urine do to her fur/skin? I noticed an odd flaky area on her hind area that would have been on the urine for that short time. I was able to give her a bath and she was fine for that. Held her in the sink and washed the bottom half of her body.
There are extra med's for while I am gone in case the sitter notices pain etc
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Post by Debbie Blackwelder on Dec 11, 2014 14:19:52 GMT -7
Good Afternoon Marcie, my name is Debbie. I have read your entire post on Trixie and if it were me I would not push Trixie to hard as of yet like giving her a bath. I know it's been 10 weeks since all of this started but from what I read she is still on her taper and I would not do any type of physical therapy on her until successfully off all meds and no signs of pain. She would not still be on the steroid is she were fully healed and the pee can be cleaned with Unscented baby wipes for quick clean up or Marjorie's tip: boil and cool green tea to dampen a washcloth, neutralizes urine on skin and fur to avoid rashes from urine scald + clean fragrance. Use white vinegar in a spray bottle to kill the bacteria and the odor they cause on floors, linens, carpets, etc.
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Post by Marcie & Bradley on Dec 15, 2014 16:32:18 GMT -7
Taper has gone well no signs of pain through the weekend with the sitter. Nor yesterday or today with me.
Anyone have any tips for her crate. I travel for work and the sitter I use teaches achool, so in the middle of the day is tough having someone come over to take Trixie out. Before all of this, it wasn't a concern because I had a doggie door.
My concern is her quality of life in the crate especially knowing she is going to have to pee. What options are there that will really absorb the pee and lock it in. The puppy pads I am using protect underneath the pad but she still gets wet from the pee. Is there anything anyone has used that is more absorbent?
These few months I have been able to be home a lot, but after the 1st of the year, that just will not be possible. I don't want her to be wet from the urine all day.
Any tips are helpful. I want to find a way to make her life not be miserable.
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Post by Pauliana on Dec 15, 2014 20:51:26 GMT -7
Hi Marcie!
A memory foam or eqg crate mattress will relieve pressure points on the skin. Protect mattress from liquids by inserting in a large trash bag and taping closed. Keep extra changes of bedding handy. No ravel/no sew fleece can be cut to needed sizes and used as linens and blankets. Fleece dries quickly and wicks moisture from the skin. This setup will prevent the mattress from getting wet with urine if the dog is incontinent and will make things easy to clean up in case of accidents.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 16, 2014 9:06:38 GMT -7
Marcie, has there been any change in Trixie's ability to move her body in the crate without having to use her neck and front legs to move, move away from a urine spot? In general we really do not like to advise to use diapers (dogs may rip them of, eat them) But if Trixie can't move away from one end of her mattress, the new baby diapers can do a good job of containing urine/deodorizing away from the skin. Dogs naturally abhor having to be near their body waste, so you have a challenge to figure out what will work best in your circumstances if there is no option to check her mid day and she can't move herself in the crate. Just throwing out some ideas: This type of product may also be helpful: tinkletrousers.com/index.htmlMaybe raised floor or recovery suite with a part open to allow urine to pass to a bottom tray? www.amazon.com/Hugs-Pet-Products-Outdoor-Elevated/dp/B002IMP51W/ref=sr_1_5?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1418745423&sr=1-5&keywords=dog+hammock+bedHow much does Trixie weigh?
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Post by Marcie & Bradley on Dec 16, 2014 21:19:48 GMT -7
The raised bed thing might be a good idea. Her mobility is minimal. She generally is not moving more than switching from her left to right side and vice versa. Although, last night she managed to switch to the complete other end of her bed. Meaning she somehow flipped to the opposite end--head where butt started out at
She weighs 12 lbs.
Has a comprehensive exam with regular vet this Friday and acupuncture and laser as well. Hoping bloodwork and all come back good.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 17, 2014 10:27:55 GMT -7
When does pred taper end as well as pain meds? When off of all meds, you can then start some very, very, light least aggressive of passive range of motion and massage for the paralyzed legs to keep the joints flexible and circulation up til Trixie can walk and do that for herself. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk . www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm
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Post by Marcie & Bradley on Dec 18, 2014 13:42:23 GMT -7
She is off all meds now. Has been for all of the week.
Sitter said her pee smelled strong today. I am not home yet but she has full vet appt. tomorrow.
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Post by Marcie & Bradley on Dec 18, 2014 19:28:35 GMT -7
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Post by Pauliana on Dec 18, 2014 21:49:42 GMT -7
Hi Marcie,
The SleePee time bed looks like it might work out for Trixie as long as long as she is comfortable with it. It certainly would be practical for those times when you will be gone..
Strong smelling pee can be a sign of a UTI, have the Vet check into that during her appointment..
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Post by Marcie & Bradley on Dec 19, 2014 8:23:43 GMT -7
At the laser and acupuncture appt now. The vet here said that she feels her main vet will recommend euthanasia because Trixie hasn't healed. That appt is this afternoon. How do you know if it's "that" time. The acupuncture vet doesn't feel Trixie will ever regain front legs because there hasn't been any progress in over a month. At her age, is it best to do that because she can't and may never walk again?
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Dec 19, 2014 8:32:25 GMT -7
No, euthanasia is NOT recommended, nor should it be considered. Nerve damage can take a long time to heal - think more in terms of months, even a year. A month is no time at all. The taper off of all meds has gone well so Trixie is doing very well. Nerve healing may not be seen during conservative care. Once the full 8 weeks are up, you can gradually start to do some physical therapy and hydrotherapy and help those legs regain movement. NO vet can tell you when or if nerve damage will heal as no one knows that. Nerve damage can heal and reverse itself. I had thought my Jeremy would never walk again. He had a cart at one point (and there are front wheel carts available) and he did leave that cart behind. It took 6 months but he did it. Never, ever give up hope and never let a vet talk you into euthanasia due to quality of life issues. IVDD is not a death sentence. Find out why that is true: www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htmYou can read our many success stories here: www.dodgerslist.com/monthstory.htm
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Post by John & Marley on Dec 19, 2014 9:21:05 GMT -7
10/3 to 12/19 is a little over two months. I had a dog who had surgery and after 13 weeks there still was no movement in his legs, no response to touch. After the 14th week there was sensation , then each week more movement. 6 months post op walking with a limp a year out running like normal you would never know he went down.
8 weeks is a guideline number for Crate Rest. If I listened to my VET my dog would have still been limping with one leg listening say that's as good as it gets. My current dog went down first week of Feb and by July was normal again running like nothing happened.
Takes Time, Patience and Love.
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Post by Marcie & Bradley on Dec 19, 2014 16:40:36 GMT -7
Thanks for the encouragement. My concern is Trixie is almost 16 years old an whether or not she has it in here.
No urine test, I need to take a sample in. All other tests were as expected.
Found a local person who makes beds that may help for when I am gone and she pees in crate. Going tomorrow or Monday to take a look at them.
I haven't lost hope, I just want to do right by my dog.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Dec 19, 2014 17:20:22 GMT -7
Dearest Marcie, whether Trixie is 1 year old or 16 years old, the nerves will heal or they won't. Either way, Trixie can lead a happy life.
Just want to share something with you written by Sharon Duncan:
"No matter what level of ability your dog achieves after recovery, your dog will be happy and loving life as long as three basic, but very simple, requirements of food, a safe, comfy place to sleep with blankets, and a family’s love are met. The real goal is being pain free. As long as your dog is pain free, he or she will move forward confidently and courageously never looking back, never having regrets, never questioning 'why.' Dogs live in the 'now.' They don’t worry about what happened yesterday or what tomorrow may bring.
Dogs don’t know pity. They don’t know 'can’t.' They don’t understand 'may never.' They don’t give up. They don’t get discouraged. They epitomize 'where there is a WILL, there is a WAY.' They will find a way! They don’t give up easily or quickly. They move forward in life in the best way they can. They don’t care if they can walk again. They care about your love most importantly. OK, food ranks right up near the top too! To them each new day brings the promise of another opportunity to get MORE - more food, more treats, and more love.
Our challenge is clear: not to allow our perspective on quality of life to influence our decisions or cloud how we judge our dog’s quality of life living with IVDD. Part of that challenge is to manage our fear and not look at the situation based on how WE would perceive things if it were to happen to us. We need to keep in mind what THEY value and help support them in their journey in life. Right now, your dog needs your support to help them become pain free and heal so they can resume their journey in life and the things they value in whatever way they can."
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Post by Marcie & Bradley on Dec 19, 2014 17:39:12 GMT -7
Thank you Marjorie. It's a great message
Trixie happily resting in her new reindeer bed. And I will do everything I can for her.
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Post by Marcie & Bradley on Dec 24, 2014 8:10:16 GMT -7
Trixie survived a 4.5 hour car ride for my trip to see family for the holidays. She got to see her old buddies--my mom has two doxies. Funny Trixie is the oldest yet looks the best. She did well on the trip. I was worried the car trip would not be fun for her. But she did fine. No signs of pain or anything. She is not currently in any meds other than a shot of adequan once a month. She wagged her tail a lot as she got her xmas gifts early. She really likes new toys- for about 5 minutes, before they become "used" I also found a local person who makes bedding. Hoping this will be the solution for her crate. It's worth a try before I order the sleepee time bed as this option seems like it might be more comfortable assuming it works. tkanina-usa.com/ I will update once I see if it really works. Could be a nice option for others. I also wanted to share how I carry Trixie as it also might help others. I use a cloth wine carrying bag. They are like the bags people use at grocery stores in order to avoid the plastic bags. The wine carrier bag is thicker and sturdier than the standard grocery store bag. I cut the sides out and it is the perfect length of her body and acts as a nice harness for when I take her outside to potty.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 24, 2014 9:45:30 GMT -7
Marcie, please do give us a full review on the Tkanina healthy pet bed, it appears to have the features needed during crate rest. tkanina-usa.com/product/1005.htmlDid you cut holes in the wine back for the legs or does it fit more under the belly? If you can, snap a pix of Trixie and sling to upload to our photo gallery as a tip for others: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/2262/put-dodgerslist-photo-gallery-calendarWhat kind of movement do you observe in her front and in her back legs now? Now that she is off all medications and pain free, are you doing some very, very, light least aggressive range of motion (ROM), massage for the legs that can't do any movement on their own/ are still paralyzed. This helps to keep joints flexible and maintain circulation in the muscles. The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk and the passive exercises #1-4 you should do. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm
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Post by Marcie & Bradley on Dec 24, 2014 16:55:23 GMT -7
She will move back legs in a forward walking motion when going potty. Little to no movement with front legs. She will use her front "elbows" to move some when In crate or on the sofa. I have a spot set up on the sofa where she sits when I am in the living room. I watch her and with little movement on her part I can watch her. I do the things listed for her in terms of Pt. She doesn't mind it. Did the picture come through ok? www.dodgerslist.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/normal_Marcie_Trixie.jpg
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 24, 2014 17:04:53 GMT -7
Marcie, the wine totes in my grocery store do not seem to be as wide as yours. Thanks for sharing the picture.
The sofa is just not a safe place for a dog healing the disc. Dogs always do the unexpected even the paralyzed one. So we have ot be one step ahead in providing a 100% safe place to heal a disc. Try putting her crate on the coffee table and pull it right up to th couch where you can touch her through the wires.
Couches, laps all slope and cause a dog to unexpectedly have to shift weight, move when a person moves. The crate is always horizontal, never sloping, providing good support to the spine.
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Post by Marcie & Bradley on Dec 24, 2014 17:28:47 GMT -7
This wine tote was bought in a wine store. Not sure if that is why it is longer. Would hold 6 bottles.
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